----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brent Meeker" <meeke...@dslextreme.com>
To: <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: Yablo, Quine and Carnap on ontology

> m.a. wrote:
>> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Flammarion" <peterdjo...@yahoo.com>
>>>>> To: "Everything List" <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:25 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Yablo, Quine and Carnap on ontology
>>>>>> On 16 Sep, 15:51, "m.a." <marty...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> the ocean of virtual particles which may give
>>>>>>> rise to all "real" particles exists somewhere between matter and
>>>>>>> thought.
>>>>>> I see no reason to believe that.
>>>>> I would be most interested in your view of vacuum fluctuations of
>>>>> virtual
>>>>> particles.
>>>> Why would they differ from what he WP article says?
>>> Brent Meeker's interpretation of the WP article seems to agree with my
>>> description.that virtual particles might not exist, does not establish 
>>> that
>> there is some immaterial thing that does exist. If they don't exist, how 
>> can they produce real particles?

> Who said virtual particles produce real particles.  They are
> computational terms in perturbation expansions.  Whether vacuum
> fluctuations exist is less clear, but all theories point to the total
> energy of the universe being zero, the positive energy of matter being
> just balanced by the negative potential energy of gravity - which would
> imply that particles and the rest of the universe can come out of nothing.
> Brent

Brent, I apologize for misrepresenting your position but I don't see where 
it undermines mine. I
said that virtual particles exist between matter and thought. You say they 
are "computational terms" and the rest of the universe came out of nothing.
Perhaps I should just have said that they are pure thought...as are 
computational terms. No?
marty a.

>> >
> > 

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