Hi Mindey, On 29 Dec 2009, at 15:07, Mindey wrote:

> I was just wondering, we are talking so much about universes, but how > do we define "universe"? Sorry if that question was answered > somewhere, but after a quick search I didn't find it. What do you mean by "universe"? Do you mean, like many, the physical universe (or multiverse), or do you mean the ultimate basic reality (the third person everything)? I think that if we assume mechanism, then it is absolutely undecidable if there is anything more than positive integers + addition and multiplication. Ontologically, if you want. All the rest belongs to the epistemology of numbers, or, put it differently, of the inside views of arithmetic. The physical universe becomes the sharable (first person plural) ignorance of the universal numbers. It is an open question if this physical universe can be captured by a program (a number) or even by a mathematical structure. It is not a primitive structure. It has a reason linked to a statistics on computations. Matter is sort of derivative of the (machine's) mind. Cf the UDA reasoning, if you have followed. There is a Skolem like paradox. Arithmetic, from outside, is infinite, but it is a relatively small and simple mathematical structure. Yet, as seen from inside, it escapes the whole of mathematics, because it looks *very* big for inside. So big that such a bigness is not even nameable by any of the creatures which live there. There is a need of some amount of mathematical logic and computer science to give sense on all this. Especially for expression like "as seen from inside", etc. Bruno Marchal http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to everything-l...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.