Bruno, you are an animal... "So that you can in principle survive with another body, coming from the first by local functional substitution. I coin this into saying "yes doctor" to a surgeon proposing you an artifical digital brain."
What is local functional substitution? If I am not my brain, then what am I, and how can i be projected or transferred into an artificial one? What of "me" is transmitted to the artificial brain-body? Or in other words, what is this me that is exported to the artificial digital brain-body and continues to live through it? If someone takes my brain out, and puts an artificial digital one in.... you think that I will continue to express my consciousness and will through it? That is pretty strange and weird... what accounts for it? Plus, that artificial digital brain-body has to break down sometime.... can we really have technical immortality.... we just keep exporting and exporting our "soul" (what?) to another brain-body whether digital-artificial or physical-artificial? "The conclusion is an explanation how the laws of physics emerges in the mind of the universal machine, or number (the digitality makes them analog to numbers). This needs some amount of work to be familiar with." Are you claiming that in addition to our particular machine-body that there is somehow a universal machine-body? A universal being? Or do you call the "universe" the universal machine? And if so, in what way is the universe actually distinct from me? Am I not essentially "the universe"... am I not an integral part of its e "That something else is arithmetical truth." You mean quite literally or just figuratively? "There is something compelling in Objective Idealism... but what does it mean to me beyond just an interesting speculative idea... > > Well, no more once you accept the digital transplant." What if I don't accept the digital transplant, what of all those who don't and can't and haven't and won't? "You can already understand that *you* are immaterial." Yeah but saying I am immaterial doesn't exactly say or designate what I am.... it only says what i am not. There is no identity statement, just a dis-identification. " You might be able to change your body every morning, or to travel through the web, useful to go back and forth Earth and Mars." Yeah but for what end? What is the value in this.... is there -feeling- and -felt value- in this? It sounds childish... some point I might get over it..... one needs purpose and meaning, real purpose and meaning. "But then the delicate point to show, is that such immateriality of you is contagious on your environment, and testably so below your substitution level." I might die before all this happens, before all this goes anywhere, -if- all this goes anywhere. "I can't really doubt that 6 is even, and I need no more to explain why some numbers develop stable believes in monstruous deep and complex histories." Don't follow you..... the kind of pointless abstract fact that 6 is even gives you all you need to explain why we have come up with some stupendous conception of natural history or elaborate cosmogonic histories? "It is the basic of theoretical computer science. I have often try to explain a bit, but it is hard to give a course on mail. " lol. " Religion is the truth, and science is the tool." That is optimistic... let us hope.... I suspect that science as we understand it is not up to the task... some new science would have to be conceived for such a herculean ambition. > > "but you might have to replace "we, the humans", by "we the universal > machine". > Well I just realized today that to talk of "man" is overly presumptuous... rather I should talk of "I".... but like I said.... I am not so sure what you mean by universal machine.... you mean: universe? or do you mean the generalization of brain-intelligence? > > "Exactly. When you interpret "man" in the sense of the arithmetical > interpretation of Plotinus (it is the (Löbian) machine)." > Lost you again. lol, makes me feel guilty. Do you feel that computers were fated to exist? I mean if you went back to classical greece... or classical india.... could it have been predicted or shown to deduced? "Mathematics is useful everywhere, even outside the universe." outside the universe? you are very good at casually making extremely controversial statements.... haha. "After Gödel, we know that even in Heaven there are typhoons!" eh? you making jokes again? Is this mathematician humor? haha. I feel semi degenerate for not being initiated into the mathematics mysteries "It is just vaster than the physical universe. It is not so big from > outside, but uncomputably big from inside." > > In truth, I don't know what you refer to when you talk of "it". > "But your Platonia strikes me as empty.... it feels like a heartless world > devoid of flesh and blood. > > From outside. But the party proceeds inside." > Projection? Party.... what kind of party? And don't start telling me we are gonna fly around the universe.... because that is not my kind of party. > > "We might think too much, or not enough.: > true, very true. There is nothing harder an rarer then good solid thinking. Probably because there is no end to thinking...? > From the feeling you give me, I think that you would have love math and > computers, if they were appearing in some other way than in your school or > youth. > But if you like music, it is about the same, except for the applications. > I could potentially get into it, for me everything depends on relationships... I wouldn't get into it just alone.... at least I haven't.... > "Only, the phenomenal world is not all what is." > >> I don't follow you here. To me the phenomenal world is the main event, the >> whole point. and I can't conceive of some other world... >> > > yes, that might be your problem. And math is a tool for conceiving other > worlds and realities. > Of course I can conceive of them.... Its just I don't take it that seriously.... I have the feeling that if there is another world.... it would have to be highly phenomenal..... I am into plurality/diversity/multiplicity/motion/play...... I am into rainbow and not light..... I am into heterogeneity and not homogeneity like Buddhists and Plotinus. This world would have to be some other form or version of our world... but maybe I lack imagination.... nevertheless, imagination is one thing..... -living it- and -being their- and realistic accessibility is another. > "Digital mechanism, like $any* theory cannot be proved, but my point is > that it is experimentally testable." > I don't know about that.... but even if it is.... then what? If or when we get the wherefrom.... we must say, okay, that is over, we are over that....but then how about the whereto? > > > > > It might be relevant when we die, or before birth. Things appears more > complex than materialist want to believe. > Possibly..... yes. > > "We might have to teach math and physics to our descendants so that they > will come back and save our souls, before the galaxy collide, but there > might be shortcut and exit door already nearby." > Lol, I know me saying this is gonna irk you a little.... but you would really make for an excellent science-fiction writer... seriously.... I am not saying your work is science fiction! I am just saying you have an incredible imagination.... anyways... How do you know a more advanced race of more advanced beings hasn't already accounted for all this and prepared for everything in advance? How do you know a super-bruno from some prior galaxy isn't a 1000 steps ahead of you and running the whole show? " I am a super agnostic too. I don't believe in God, nor in Matter. And I don't believe in their inexistence as well. But then I show that if we assume comp, much light on those kind of things is given. It is free, and not yet taxed." That is pretty cool. > > >> > "That is not so incoherent for someone who find materialism 75% > compelling." Well today I did some deep thinking about materialism and I came to the conclusion that it was a ridiculous notion. But I need to do some more thinking of course. > "I am open to the idea that we can discover new force, but spirituality is > already some exploding just from the number relation, that I find it not > necessary to hypothesize more than necessary." > I kind of feel it is not a hypothesis... in the sense that I feel or experience some "astral force" or something.... it is pretty real to me some of the times.... or atleast it seems that way.... it is a subtle feeling/force and it even has visual components etc... I can see it around me and stuff.... I don't know exactly what it is our what its causes are... I just see/feel/sense it as some kind of subtle "force" or I don't know what! But I guess from third-person communicative it is hypothesis. "Me neither, literally. But it makes sense it term of the information you can discover." That makes sense.... "We can see that, but that's not all. That is why mediation technic ask for some amount of calming down the thoughts." If we apprehend some kind of phenomena or ecstatic feeling or luminosity or sparks show or latent force made manifest or some totalizing transformation or I don't know what.... the question still remains: "what really happened?" or "how should I interpret this?" "what are the true causes" etc. .... right? yes, but many buddhist confuse the samadhi (total peaceful mind) and > enlightenment ("big sudden shift or perspective"). > lol, for "analytical meditation"... I don't go for any of those.... I just try to have clearest and most concentrated and most thorough thinking I can have.... that is the meditation..... or sometimes if I meditate I try to go for high concentration for like greater inner power and ecstatic euphoria empowerment. Incidentally.... what is this so called "inner power" or "will".... or even perhaps "mental force"... what does physics or science have to say about that? . > >> "That is the whole point of reasoning. To fit the pieces of the puzzle, we > need something simple, but big. Arithmetical truth from inside is ¨very > big*. This list is based in part of the work on Everett in Quantum > Mechanics, which shows that if we read QM literally, there are infinities of > parallel universes. I show that a priori, if we similarly take just > arithmetic seriously and literally, there are many more dreams, and > realities emerges from gluing property of dreams. Reality is beyond > fiction, always." > How did we end up in this mess in the first place? Do you believe in Designer, do you believe in Design? Did we exist billions and trillions of "years" ago? And if so, what were we doing? lol. (this question is loaded like gun powder because so many scientists blow up are become very anxious over the question of design... because they think it is christian or perhaps it goes beyond the reach and range of scientific verification so they consider it insignificant and they are tired of getting nowhere with the notion. And perhaps even if they were to entertain the notion, they would hate the 'Demiurge' because it has created a seemingly absurd situation and it is pretty Deist.... not sure all the psychology involved) what I am saying is, if you presuppose some kind of spiritual meaning to the cosmos, then it seems to me that you presuppose some kind of Demiurge.... because how else would it become infused with spiritual meaning and import? p.s. by dreams do you mean ideas? Bruno........ I am 25 and I have like what, 60 more years optimistically speaking?.... and you, you have 40 more years optimistically speaking? Even if we had a hundred or hundreds more.... I doubt we would transcend our present predicament.... I don't think the morrow will be much different from today.... we probably will not liberate ourselves from our present plight of radical ignorance.... and then..... cremated to smithereens or entombed six feet under.... what will become of us, whence our fate? no one knows, or at least not we. "To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow, Creeps in this petty pace from day to day, To the last syllable of recorded time; And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle! Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, That struts and frets his hour upon the stage, And then is heard no more. It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing." good talk, take care. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.