On Aug 7, 2:44 am, Evgenii Rudnyi <use...@rudnyi.ru> wrote:
> On 07.08.2011 05:12 Craig Weinberg said the following:

> > We can always infer qualia. It doesn't mean our inference is
> > correct. In this case I'm pointing out that the inference doesn't
> > require a learned language. My point is that math is not nature, but
> > nurture. If it were otherwise, I would expect the effects of alcohol
> > intoxication or smaller brain cortex to make an animal more logical
> > rather than more emotional. Emotion is more primitive than symbolic
> > logic.
>
> Please note that according to experimental results (see the book
> mentioned in my previous message), pain comes after the event. For
> example when you touch a hotplate, you take your hand back not because
> of the pain. The action actually happens unconsciously, conscious pain
> comes afterward.

The pain comes to 'us' after the event. That's not to say that the
cells of your burned finger are not in pain already. Cellular pain may
not be the same experience of course as a trillion cell human being's
version of it. We have to ramp up the significance of the sensation.
Cells die all the time, so their damage may not feel as 'expensive' to
us who, all things considered, consider our own fingers pretty highly.

As far as the book, it looks good at the beginning but then seems like
it creeps back down away from the hard problem. Most of what you have
quoted I agree with and have considered often. Here's my answers to
his qualia questions:

>p. 66 “We would need to know of qualia (in terms that link up effectively with 
>the rest of natural science):
>1) What are they?
Qualia are the sensorimotive set complements to electromagnetic
behavior in matter. This requires a shift in our understanding about
electromagnetism, but does not require change to any calculations or
experimental results. All that is required is the reinterpretation of
the idea of an electromagnetic 'field' in space to be a sensitivity
'range' between material phenomena.

>2) How does the brain produce them?
It doesn't. The brain is made of them...on the inside. The brain is as
much produced by qualia as qualia is produced by the brain. How the
elaboration of the human brain produces specifically human qualia is a
different story. I call that effect 'cumulative entanglement' or
significance. Sort of Energy + Time - Entropy. What Fibonacci feels
like.

>3) Why does the brain produce them (given that it can perform so many complex 
>operations, even to the level of intentionality, without them)?
Everything has qualia. The human brain has human qualia because that
is it's purpose - to human body to create and experience significance.

>4) What do they do?
They are sensorimotive. They inform and inspire. They crystallize
meaning.

>5) How did they evolve?
Significance is retained over time through the propagation of pattern
within the interior of matter.

>6) What survival value do they confer?
That question reveals the bias of our time. What value does survival
confer to the universe? Qualia is the reason that we see a living
organism that is doomed to suffer and die as an improvement over the
silent void of asteroid rubble. Significance.

>7) Is it only brains that can produce them?”
Nope.

>p. 40 “Given, that there is a scientific story that goes seamlessly from 
>sensory input to behavioural output without reference to consciousness then, 
>when we try to add >conscious experience back into the story, we can’t find 
>anything for it to do. Consciousness, it seems, has no casual powers, it 
>stands outside the casual chain.”

Another one that shows how backward we are willing to bend for the
sake of the 3p occidental worldview. Just because we aren't conscious
of everything that our brain is doing doesn't mean that nothing is
aware of it. Human consciousness is an entity on the scale of the
human body. It's natural default PRIF (Perceptual Relativity Inertial
Frame) is within a range of around 0.1 Hz to 24 hours and from around .
5 cm to 100m (approximating of course). When you start looking beyond
or beneath those thresholds, you are no longer looking at
consciousness, but rather subconscious awareness. Consciousness is
slow. It doesn't mean that it can't alter subconscious behaviors over
time if it wants to. It's a two way street. If we tell ourselves that
it doesn't matter if the stove is hot because we have a job as a cook,
then gradually, along with our heat receptors getting desensitized,
our conscious familiarity will override the initial reflexes and we
build a tolerance that changes the behavior of the brain. Free will is
not an illusion - that truly would have no purpose whatsoever - it's
just big and slow because we are a trillion cell animal with a crazy
complicated brain.

Craig

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