On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Stephen P. King <stephe...@charter.net>wrote:

> On 8/18/2011 10:31 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
>> Hi Stephen,
>> On 17 Aug 2011, at 16:08, Stephen P. King wrote:
>>  Hi,
>>>   Recently a link was referenced that discussed how serial sectioning of
>>> brains is being automated: http://www.mcb.harvard.edu/**
>>> lichtman/ATLUM/ATLUM_web.htm<http://www.mcb.harvard.edu/lichtman/ATLUM/ATLUM_web.htm>
>>>  I have a question about this. Will this technology yield a model of the
>>> dynamics of brain activity or will it be another taxonomy of brain
>>> structures? It seems that dynamics are completely missing from the narrative
>>> about scanning and uploading our brains into Turing Machines. How exactly is
>>> a topological map of the structure of the brain contain any information
>>> about the specifics of brain activity?
>>>   At best it might allow us to toss out models of dynamics that have
>>> implications that would contradict the topology structure, but nothing at
>>> all about how the topologies evolve.
>> I don't find the references now, but I remember having read that some
>> animal, like frogs, can freeze and resume the brain activity after that.
>> Some experience on rat shows that long term memory is preserved in freezing,
>> and that during freezing the activity of the brain is really near zero.
>> Short term memory is not. A cryogenized person might survive with an amnesia
>> of the last 5-6 minutes.
>> The dynamic of the brain is coded in the neurotransmitter concentrations,
>> not in the ionic potential along the axions. That might be an argument for
>> saying that the comp subst. level *might* be high.
>> Bruno
>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~**marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/>
> Hi Bruno,
>    Freezing would not always destroy the potentials that generate the
> dynamics, thus momentum information is preserved. The microtome is measuring
> pure positions of the neurotransmiters, etc. Even if we have a precise map
> of all the molecules, that information is conjugate to the momentum
> information. To copy a mind we need both, thus the conjugacy makes faithfull
> copying and uploading impossible. There is an inherent upper bound on the
> resolution of the scan thus indeterminacy and therefore, as you argue, we
> only bet that the copy has 1p continuity (bijective isomorphism or faithful
> homeomorphism) with the original. I believe that this is a key feature of
> your result.
Minds can recover from states of sleep, anesthesia, seizure and coma.  I
think if the cells begin behaving normally then what they were doing at the
time they were frozen has little importance as to whether or not the mind
can come back.  I do agree with Bruno that memory formation of the prior few
minutes would probably be lost, as occurs when strong electric currents are
applied to the brain.  The essence of the person would not be lost though,
and you would be as much you as the person who will wake up in your bed
tomorrow morning.


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