On Aug 30, 11:11 am, Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>
> > Right. That's the same thing I'm saying. When you decide to move your
> > hand, that decision corresponds to neurotransmitters firing. It's the
> > same thing. Considered from the 1p subjective view it's psychology -
> > "I want to reach for that remote control" (because I want to watch
> > something on TV). Considered from 3p objective view it's neurology -
> > executive processing regions light up efferent neural pathways, etc.
> > This is voluntary movement so it is driven by the subject's reasoning
> > and not the nervous system's reasoning. If it were the nervous
> > system's reasoning, it would be involuntary. Your body needs to warm
> > itself up so your nervous system puts your muscles into a shivering
> > subroutine. There is an important difference between voluntary and
> > involuntary phenomena as far as the subject is concerned, but not any
> > inherently discernible difference when the self is viewed as an
> > object.
> The subject feels he initiates and has control over the voluntary
> movement but not the involuntary movement. That's the difference
> between them.
Ok, now you could understand what I'm talking about if you wanted to.
All you have to do is realize that it is not possible for us to feel
that there is a difference between them if there is not a difference
between them. Doesn't mean that the difference is what we think it is
- it could very well be only a feeling - but so what? What possible
purpose could such a feeling have, and how could it possibly arise
from particle mechanics? Where is the feeling located? Why is it
there? Why don't we have the same feeling about our stomach digesting?
> Both types of movement, however, are completely
> determined by the low level behaviour of the matter in the brain,
You can say that if you want to, but it just means that the low level
behavior of matter is magic, and that even though it's only a large
molecule, it wants to drive a Bugatti.
> which can in theory be modeled by a computer.
> No particle moves unless
> it is pushed by another particle or force,
Force is metaphysical. It's just our way of understanding processes
which are occurring outside of us rather than inside. My view is that
it's all sense and that force is in the eye of the beholder.
> otherwise it's magic, like
> a table levitating.
Tables do levitate if they aren't stuck to a large planet. What's
magic is that we think it's a table and not a cloud of atoms flying
around a volume of empty space.
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
For more options, visit this group at