I agree completely. My view is that awareness/sense/detection extends
to all physical phenomena. It would not be possible for someone's arm
to raise unless something was aware of it, I'm just pointing out that
it is not necessary for 'us' to be conscious in order to function as
an organism as if we were.

Craig

On Dec 31 2011, 6:47 pm, Pierz <pier...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Stage hypnosis is one thing, but as a former psychotherapist who has
> used hypnotherapy, I can say that it is a great oversimplification to
> say that a hypnotic subject raises their hand without awareness. What
> actually occurs is dissociation, in which awareness is split, not
> absent. This has been experimentally demonstrated in cases of pain
> suppression. It was shown that the subjects did perceive the pain,
> although they did not do so consciously. Where such sub- or un-
> conscious awareness remains, one can't really speak of a philosophical
> zombie, rather one needs to acknowledge that consciousness is not the
> undifferentiated unity it is sometimes represented as being in
> philosophical discussion. It is layered, deeply structured and
> complex, and there are many grey areas.
>
> On Dec 29 2011, 12:59 am, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 28, 1:22 am, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > On 12/27/2011 6:53 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
>
> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViJH5nHpn_c
>
> > > > We don't need awareness to behave like we are aware.
>
> > > How are you interpreting this?  That the people were not aware of Brown's 
> > > message, or that
> > > they weren't aware of raising their hands?  Or just that they were not 
> > > conscious of why
> > > they raised their hand...they had no narrative explanation?
>
> > I removed this post actually, because I wasn't familiar with Brown and
> > assumed that this was an honest demonstration of mass hypnosis. After
> > learning a bit more about him I'm not sure what it actually is. He may
> > very probably be using shills to raise their hands first and
> > demonstrate the power of conformity rather than hypnotic suggestion.
> > If this was an honest demonstration of suggestion, then yes, they had
> > no awareness of initiating their hand raising behavior. If not, then
> > it just shows how one kind of awareness - visual perception, can drive
> > behavior without logical motive (another kind of awareness).

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