On 20.02.2012 21:20 meekerdb said the following:
On 2/20/2012 12:02 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:


...

I am ready to learn the meaning of information in thermodynamics.
Please just explain it by means of practical examples.


The link I sent below works out the entropy of an ideal gas using
information. You keep asking for "practical examples" but that's like
 asking for practical examples of calculating molecular reaction free
 energy from quantum mechanics. It is very difficult because it
depends on the electron energy levels. It has been done in a few
simple (not necessarily practical) cases as a proof of principle. But
it is not the way engineering or chemistry is done because it is both
easier and more reliable to measure them. But that doesn't mean that
they don't have energy or that the concept of energy doesn't apply.
No one calculates the strength of steel from carbon and iron atomic
bonds and crystal structure either. But that doesn't mean the
strength of steel is a separate, independent property.

I do not get your point. Chemists use molecular simulation extensively and you will find the works where even phase diagram are computed from the first principle. Please run

phase diagram from the first principles

on the Google Scholar. Yet, information is not there. Hence I am lost.

...

If you would like to show that information is very useful in
thermodynamics,

Other, smarter people have already done that.

Could you please give an example? Then it would be easier to understand your position.

please apply it to simple thermodynamic problems to show how the
concept of information has simplified for example the computation
of the phase diagram (or equilibrium composition between N2, H2 and
NH3). Should I repeat my examples?

No, you should consider why chemists don't just calculate all
reactions and structure from atomic theory and QM.

You underestimate chemists. As I have mentioned they use molecular simulation extensively. You can find some examples in my old lectures (they are a bit outdated though as they are about eight years old)

http://evgenii.rudnyi.ru/teaching.html#md

But Shannon's information is not there.

Evgenii

Brent

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