On 13 Jun 2012, at 02:31, meekerdb wrote:
On 6/12/2012 4:40 PM, Pierz wrote:
I didn't say that we would all turn into self-deniers concerned
only to help others. I said we would achieve an optimal moral
society. Such a society would always bear in mind the absolute
equality of all subjects (not in the 'royal subject' sense!), with
each person knowing their actions are received by none other than
themselves. The best moral action would be the selfish action, seen
from the perspective of the entire self rather than the fragmentary
self. Imagine you share an island with a person for one year, and
you know that the next year, you will become the other person on
the island at the start of the same year again - ie, you will
experience everything from their perspective. How will it change
the way you behave?
So does this universal person include dogs? apes? spiders? rocks?
You put the finger on the difficult question..
Is the universal person the person associated with the universal
machine (this includes Robinson Arithmetic, bacteria, spiders, your
laptop, ... up to you and me, and beyond)
Rock? plausibly trivially if the quantum fields description is
correct, in the sense that the exact solution of the quantum wave of
the rock is a quantum universal dovetailer as the quantum vacuum is),
but plausibly meaningless in the sense that you have not provided a
way to attribute an individual person to a rock.
Or is the universal person the Löbian machine (this includes Peano
Arithmetic, *jumping* spiders, octopi, and you and me).
The first one can *do* everything, but *understand* about nothing.
The second one can *do* everything but also, they *know* that they can
*do* everything. They still *understand* about nothing, but they *can*
understand why they understand about nothing. They can understand
where the questions could come from.
The jump "Universal" ==> "Löbian" is the jump from consciousness to
self-consciousness. I am currently thinking. Basically Löbian =
Universal + induction axioms. Or K + []([]p->p)->[]p.
Smullyan explains how a K4 reasoner becomes Löbian when he visited the
Island of Knight and Knaves, as we discussed a long time ago, and with
comp, we are K4 reasoner, and computer-land *is* an Island of Knight
and Knaves.
cf:
K = [](p->q)->([]p->[]q)
4 = []p->[][]p
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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