On 03 Aug 2012, at 15:10, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:
On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
On 02 Aug 2012, at 21:34, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:
I do not want to suggest a definition, but have a question
concerning comp frame. When I improvise, often in Jazz or Rock
context the free will question becomes fuzzy in this way:
Sometimes you hit a point where all the patterns/formulas you've
learned; i.e. the kind of stuff you can play in your sleep, all the
pre-calculated, time-proven stuff, runs out... at which point you
risk repeating yourself in redundancy. At this point, I am forced
to take a risk and plunge into the icy waters of all things I
haven't played yet.
When it works, it feels like magic as instant composition; but even
when it doesn't, which makes up the great majority of these
situations, and a technical error results from forced decision, as
Brent says, out of time constraint, you can "ride the mistake". And
on some occasions it can change the whole musical situation and
take the band in a different direction: like we wanted to close
after so many choruses, but we extend "because somebody found that
weird thing" and riding it was pretty nice and it echoes into coda
and ending, everybody quoting it.
So from 1p perspective the technical error is not intended. Not a
free decision and rather embarrassing, taken out of context.
But this can reverse from point of view of the band/audience after
the mistake has proven a fruitful input for some new groove. Then
everybody agrees it was cool, and that we fully intended and meant
that to happen in a "that's what music is about" kind of way. But
then it can also be a random bullshit mistake; not fruitful at all.
Strangely, even though I decide to "take the plunge", I don't
really feel like I'm in control of this. But if venue, band,
audience is cool; I definitely control it more, than when a bunch
of professors are evaluating me.
So my question for weak comp frame: who/what else is in control
when 1p makes a forced, time-constrained decision?
It seems to me that you answered the question in the question. If it
is the 1p which makes the decision, the one in control is the 1p
itself (that is, with other name, the inner god, the unnameable
self, the subject, the (first) person). It is a mixture of truth and
Thanks for the answer.
It makes sense that 1p tends to play more bullshit, forcing time
constrained decision, when it believes itself to be evaluated (by
some professor for example), than when 1p believes itself to be in a
"truer" or less contrived musical playing situation, like the
audience is sufficiently drunk, people are supportive and laughing
etc. By truth you mean 1p truth, right?
That might depend on how we define truth and first person. Usually I
use truth in the sense of the "outer God", which I think is plausibly
not a person. In some context I prefer to talk like if it was a
person, because it prevents the confusion between truth (a semantic
notion) and the syntax describing those true propositions (frequent
In AUDA, the first person is defined by a conjunction between belief
(Bp) and truth (p). As truth cannot be defined by the machine, p just
means the assertion of p by the machine. This works well in the ideal
case of the self-referentially correct machine (as such a machine will
never assert a false proposition). Such simplification makes the math
accessible, and that is what is needed to recover physics/theology
from numbers, but it makes is hard to be applied on human real life
situations, like when playing guitar in front of a professor or a
public .... :)
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