On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 2:24:20 PM UTC-4, rclough wrote: > > Hi Craig Weinberg > > Actually, I may be accused of subtly altering the meanings of > Peirce's categories, for to him all three cats are public, > objective. He refused to subjectively step into the mind of the > interpreter, > instead using the word interprant. > > This is very hard to understand stuff, and so it is not surprising that we > disagree on > the meanings of I , II, and III. Here's my view of II and III > > 1) Secondness (II) or thinking is subjective, so not public. > Its dyadic nature comes from the act of comparing 2 mental things. It is > the > mental process of subjective recognition of a perceived object (I) > from a set of objects stored in memory. > > You might say that III is the meaning of the thing, > the unfolding of I and II, which would give it its ternary status > sign, object, interpretant). > > For example, > > I = object (apple) > II = sign ("apple") > III = meaning (or interprant= interpreted sign) of "apple" to the > observer, > not just the dictionary meaning. >
You are directly contradicting the information on that page, which says: Firstness. Quality of feeling. Ideas, chance, possibility. Vagueness, "some". i.e. nothing at all like an apple or object: private subjective experience Secondness. Reaction, resistance, (dyadic) relation. Brute facts, actuality. Singularity, discreteness, “this”. ... "This" is like an apple: public objective realism Thirdness. Representation, mediation. Habits, laws, necessity. Generality, continuity, "all". i.e. the semiotic medium through which private is made universal - language, gesture, etc. Craig > This triad is described on > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotic_elements_and_classes_of_signs > > > A sign (or representamen) represents, in the broadest possible sense of > "represents". It is something interpretable as saying something about > something. > It is not necessarily symbolic, linguistic, or artificial. > > An object (or semiotic object) is a subject matter of a sign and an > interpretant. It can be anything discussable or thinkable, a thing, event, > relationship, quality, law, > argument, etc., and can even be fictional, for instance Hamlet.[13] > > All of those are special or partial objects. The object most accurately is > the universe of discourse to which the partial or special object belongs. > For instance, a perturbation of Pluto's orbit is a sign about Pluto > but ultimately not only about Pluto. > > An interpretant (or interpretant sign) is the sign's more or less > clarified meaning or ramification, a kind of form or idea of the difference > which > the sign's being true or undeceptive would make. (Peirce's sign theory > concerns meaning in the broadest sense, including logical implication, not > just the meanings of words as properly clarified by a dictionary.) The > interpretant is a sign (a) of the object and (b) of the interpretant's > "predecessor" (the interpreted sign) as being a sign of the same object. > The interpretant is an interpretation in the sense of a product of an > interpretive process or a content in which an interpretive relation > culminates, though this product or content may itself be an act, a state of > agitation, a conduct, etc. Such is what is summed up in saying that > > " the sign stands for the object to the interpretant. " > > > > > Roger Clough, rcl...@verizon.net <javascript:> > 10/17/2012 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen > > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > From: Craig Weinberg > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2012-10-17, 11:15:09 > Subject: Re: Peirce's Categories > > > > > On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:18:26 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categories_%28Peirce%29 everything-list > > Peirce's Categories (technical name: the cenopythagorean categories)[8] > Name:Typical characterizaton:As universe of experience:As > quantity:Technical definition:Valence, "adicity": > Firstness.[9]Quality of feeling.Ideas, chance, possibility.Vagueness, > "some".Reference to a ground (a ground is a pure abstraction of a > quality).[10]Essentially monadic (the quale, in the sense of the such,[11] > which has the quality). > Secondness.[12]Reaction, resistance, (dyadic) relation.Brute facts, > actuality.Singularity, discreteness, this .Reference to a correlate (by its > relate).Essentially dyadic (the relate and the correlate). > Thirdness.[13]Representation, mediation.Habits, laws, > necessity.Generality, continuity, "all".Reference to an > interpretant*.Essentially triadic (sign, object, interpretant*). > > > Roger Clough, rcl...@verizon.net > 10/17/2012 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen > > These categories are the stages of epistemology. > > Firstness is the pure quale or what I would call "inner raw experience". > Subjective. Private. Personal. > > Agree. > > > > Secondness is dyadic relation, typical of thinking,which is an activity of > intelligence. > > Disagree. Thinking is first person inner raw experience too. It's a > different channel of qualia (not smells, flavors, or colors, but thoughts, > ideas, memeories, etc) which is meta to subordinate qualia, but there is no > other significant difference. Thoughts are higher up on the monochord than > other kinds of sensorimotive activity (according to thoughts, anyways...it > may be relativistic). > > > The dyad seems to be to me between Firstness and Thirdness. > > Thirdness is the objective form of the quale, a description for the > experience of Firstness. Objective. Public. > > Public objects are multisensory facts, so they have to be Secondness. > > Thirdness is the unfolding relations between Firstness and Secondness - > the capacity for perception to develop an inertial direction. This gets > into numerology really, as three is about expression and character - the > beginning of irreversibility and disambiguation. In four, inertial > direction finds its limit - range or frame. Worlds, games, systems. > > Craig > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/ZQaNgNJKXtcJ. > To post to this group, send email to > everyth...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > everything-li...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/everything-list/-/3xDBA7RpCRwJ. 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