Hi Bruno Marchal Yes, and keep in mind that there may be more than one theory that gives the same results in the form of data. So in this world, the truth must lie in the data, which is unique, and not the theory, which may not be unique.
In this world, data is king. Roger Clough, [email protected] 11/3/2012 "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen ----- Receiving the following content ----- From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-11-02, 13:34:22 Subject: Re: Self-ascription and "Perfect Model Model" On 02 Nov 2012, at 10:42, Roger Clough wrote: > Hi Bruno, > > Could it not be that there is nothing especially sacred > about the natural numbers, that these are, as Hobbes > put it regarding words, "but counterfeit tokens" ? Numbers, with + and * laws, is mainly the same things than digital machines, and the laws making them working. > And the real controlling force which uses them is > information theory ? That is to say, intelligence. Here you are far too quick. I can make sense, because I have some favorable imagination. As I said, information theory is a tiny part of computer science. It exploits the duality between immune/simple set, where the self-reference logic exploits the duality creative/ productive set. The two dualities plays some r?e, but the creative/ productive set duality (the theory of universal machine) is much more rich. The mathematical notion of information still disallows meaning and person. It is more used for communication of signals, treatment of noise, compression of data, etc. You will also have the problem between choosing classical information or quantum information, and how to relate them, etc. Bruno > > > Roger Clough, [email protected] > 11/2/2012 > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen > > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > From: Evgenii Rudnyi > Receiver: everything-list > Time: 2012-11-01, 06:09:50 > Subject: Re: Self-ascription and "Perfect Model Model" > > > On 30.10.2012 16:25 Bruno Marchal said the following: >> >> On 30 Oct 2012, at 12:53, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: >> > > ... > >>> >>> You talk for example about integers as a framework for everything. >>> Fine. Yet, I would like to understand how mankind through it >>> development has invented integers. How comp would help to answer >>> this? >> >> Comp might not been able to answer that, in any better way than, say, >> evolution theory. Numbers are important in nature, as everything is >> born from them, and to survive with bigger chance, the universal >> numbers, us in particular, have to be able to recognize them, and >> manipulate them accordingly. Comp is not a theory aimed at explaining >> everything directly. It is just, at the start, an hypothesis in >> philosophy of mind, and then it appears that it reduces the mind-body >> problem to an explanation of quanta and qualia from >> arithmetic/computer science. >> >> Its main value in the human science, is, imo, that he forces us to be >> more modest, and more aware that we know about nothing, if only >> because we have wrongly separate the human science (including >> theology, afterlife, metaphysics) and the exact sciences. Comp >> provides a way to reunite them. Comp can be seen as an abstract >> corpus callosum making a bridge between the formal and the informal, >> before bridging mind and matter. > > Below there is a couple of quotes about German idealism. Please > replace > Absolute Spirit by Natural Numbers there. Then it may give one > possible > answer to my question. > > ?bsolute Spirit is the fundamental reality. But in order to create the > world, the Absolute manifests itself, or goes out of itself in a > sense, > the Absolute forgets itself and empties itself into creation (although > never really ceasing to be itself). Thus the world is created as a > ?alling away? from Spirit, as a ?elf-alienation? of Spirit, although > the Fall is never anything but a play of Spirit itself.? > > ?aving ?allen? into the manifest and material world, Spirit begins the > process of returning to itself, and this process of the return of > Spirit > to Spirit is simply development or evolution itself. The original > ?escent? (or involution) is a forgetting, a fall, a self-alienation of > Spirit; and the reverse movement of ?scent? (or evolution) is thus the > self-remembering and self-actualization of Spirit. And yet, the > Idealists emphasized, all of Spirit is fully present at each and every > stage of evolution as the process of evolution itself. ? > > Evgenii > -- > http://blog.rudnyi.ru/2012/10/evolution-and-german-idealism.html > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Everything List" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en > . > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
