Space and time may be only on the mind in the Kantian sense. I donĀ“t find
that space must be independent of the mind.  space and time may be the way
 we perceive a space-time manifold which is pure mathematic and nothing
else. Maybe we can see space out there and we can think on geometry  in a
spatial way (not algebraically)  because we have space-mode rasoning on the
mind, not because space is pre-existent to the mind neither because space
is something in mathematics.

And may be that computation for autopiesis, in the form of natural
selection, life and mind are space-time trajectories, which, when looked
closely form outside space-time,  they are nothing but fortunate caramboles
of particles, molecules or electrical signals.


2013/1/11 Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net>

> Hi Bruno Marchal
>
> A life field is similar to Sheldrake's morphisms,
> Leibniz's substances or L's monads or L's souls.
>
> The physical is that which is extended in space.
> Dreams, like mind or ideas, are not extended in space,  so not physical.
>
> The rest I agree with you on.
>
>
> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
> 1/11/2013
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> From: Bruno Marchal
> Receiver: everything-list
> Time: 2013-01-10, 11:51:49
> Subject: Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.
>
>
> On 10 Jan 2013, at 13:07, Roger Clough wrote:
>
> > Hi Bruno Marchal
> >
> > Sheldrake's morphisms might be thought of as life fields.
>
> What is that supposed to explain?
>
>
> >
> > But I don't think fields themselves are physical, rather they are
> > monadic, descriptions of physical things.
>
> I am not sure that I understand what you mean by physical.
>
> Keep in mind that in the comp theory, the physical is epistemological.
> (Unless there is a flaw in UDA, etc.)
>
> The physical is the content of shared dreams, shared between us with
> us = all the L?ian entities (machines and divinities (non machines,
> oracles, etc.)).
>
> We belong to a continuum of matrices, consistent with the overall
> arithmetical truth (which appears to be something quite transcendental
> with comp).
>
> This might be false, and my point is only that this is a testable
> consequence of comp (and QM rather succeeds well the test up to now).
>
> Then I illustrate that the computationalist "big picture" is closer to
> Plato (and many others, perhaps Descartes, Kant and Leibniz) than to
> naturalism, physicalism, or any (weak) materialist doctrine which
> reifies matter.
>
> Bruno
>
> >
> >
> > [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
> > 1/10/2013
> > "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
> > ----- Receiving the following content -----
> > From: Bruno Marchal
> > Receiver: everything-list
> > Time: 2013-01-09, 09:48:03
> > Subject: Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.
> >
> >
> > On 09 Jan 2013, at 12:07, Roger Clough wrote:
> >
> >> Hi meekerdb
> >>
> >> Sheldrake's morphisms would be what John Clark or bruno theorized as
> >> God.
> >
> > I don't think so. I have never understood what Sheldrake's morphism
> > are, but they seem physical, from what I can understand.
> > God is not physical, and by definition, the physical needs God, or
> > truth, to exist or make sense.
> >
> > Bruno
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
> >> 1/9/2013
> >> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen
> >> ----- Receiving the following content -----
> >> From: meekerdb
> >> Receiver: everything-list
> >> Time: 2013-01-08, 13:01:16
> >> Subject: Re: HOW YOU CAN BECOME A LIBERAL THEOLOGIAN IN JUST 4 STEPS.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1/8/2013 9:14 AM, John Clark wrote:
> >> On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> GOD means the reality in which you believe.
> >>
> >> Friends, are you tired of your old job, it's time to change your
> >> occupation and make big bucks, amaze your friends, be a hit at
> >> parties and become a professional pundit on cable news shows! You
> >> too can become a liberal theologian by using the patented John Clark
> >> method and it only takes 4 simple steps!
> >>
> >>
> >> STEP 1) Find something that everybody believes exists, it doesn't
> >> matter what it is.
> >>
> >> STEP 2) Define the word "God" as meaning that thing whatever it may
> >> be.
> >>
> >> STEP 3) Declare that you have proven the existence of God.
> >>
> >> STEP 4) There is no step 4 because step 3 leads nowhere.
> >>
> >> John K Clark
> >>
> >>
> >> Didn't Tillich already copyright that method, John?
> >>
> >> Brent
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
> >
> > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
> >
> >
> >
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> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
>
>
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-- 
Alberto.

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