On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 7:58 AM, Roger Clough <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Terren Suydam > > Faith is a gift we are unworthy of. > Whatever floats your boat. Terren > > > ----- Receiving the following content ----- > *From:* Terren Suydam <[email protected]> > *Receiver:* everything-list <[email protected]> > *Time:* 2013-01-30, 14:21:17 > *Subject:* Re: Re: Hateful > > > Hi Roger, > > What else is it? > > If you say it is the arbiter of morality, then that too can be framed in > terms of group persistence. > > If you're talking about spirituality, whatever one means by that, it has > never seemed the case to me that religion is *required* for one to realize > one's spirituality. > > Terren > > On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Roger Clough <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Hi Terren Suydam >> Considering religion as a stabilizing social phenomenon is true, >> but that's not all it is. >> >> ----- Receiving the following content ----- >> *From:* Terren Suydam <[email protected]> >> *Receiver:* everything-list <[email protected]> >> *Time:* 2013-01-30, 10:22:37 >> *Subject:* Re: Hateful >> >> Personally, my take on religion is that it has been an extraordinarily >> successful means of organizing groups. I don't religion has ever been any >> one person's燤achiavellian scheme, rather I think religion (and other >> cultural institutions) have been selected for in the evolution of culture.營 >> also tend to see collectives of humans as organisms-in-themselves, in >> roughly the same way that a hive of bees can be seen as an organism in >> itself; and that human genetics has co-evolved with the cultural memetics. >> >> As such, I tend to run religious dogma through this filter: does it >> promote values in individuals, that, taken collectively, make the >> collective more likely to persist. When I run the above prayer through that >> filter I find that it is a pretty good fit for that idea. >> >> Terren >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 11:13 PM, Kim Jones <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> This is a pretty well-worn, oft-used, school prayer. Given it is recited >>> or sung by the entire student body and staff at a good many schools and >>> other institutions you would have to assume that it's all fundamentally >>> good stuff. >>> >>> >>> >>> Teach us, good Lord, to serve thee as thou deserves; >>> to give and not to count the cost; >>> to fight and not to heed the wounds; >>> to till, and not to seek for rest; >>> to labour, and not to ask for any reward, >>> save that of knowing we do thy will. >>> >>> >>> Amen. >>> >>> >>> But it's all incredibly bad advice, really - don't you think? Why do >>> people assume God wants Earthlings to be such a bunch of try-hards? >>> I hate this prayer. It advertises values that no one can live up to and >>> no one need live up to. Surely we can invent a better, less servile, less >>> obsequious, less cringing, less Gollum-like take on what we think God wants >>> for us. >>> >>> All this servility, this grovelling at the feet of somebody. Is God >>> really into all that? I don't believe it. >>> >>> >>> >>> Kim Jones >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________ >> *DreamMail* - Your mistake not to try it once, but my mistake for your >> leaving off. use again www.dreammail.org >> <%--DreamMail_AD_END--> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
