On 20 Mar 2013, at 17:09, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 Craig Weinberg <[email protected]> wrote:
>> If when X is changed there is ALWAYS a change in Y in the same
direction, and when Y changes you can ALWAYS find a change in X
that preceded it, then X causes Y. IT'S WHAT THE WORD "CAUSES" MEANS!
> Two flowers bloom at sunrise every day without fail. Does one
cause the other to bloom?
I don't know, I'd have to perform some experiment's to find out.
> Do the flowers cause the sun to rise?
If when X happens Y always happens AND when X doesn't happen Y never
happens then we can say with great confidence that X causes Y
because that's what the word "causes" means.
Does this not imply that X causes Y if and only if Y causes X?
In many-world terms it means that in all worlds where you have X you
have Y, and in all worlds where you have Y you have X.
In general we want X causes Y be different from Y causes X.
More useful is saying just that "when X happens Y always happens". In
all worlds with X you have Y.
X causes Y iff [] (X -> Y), (and then there will be as many
notions of causality that there are possible modal logics, and the
causality appears to be a high level domain and context relative
notion).
Bruno
Thus if when the flower blooms the sun always comes up AND when the
flower does not bloom (such as when the experimenter ties the bloom
closed) the Earth changes its rotational speed and the sun never
comes above the horizon then we can say with great confidence that
the flower caused the sun to rise because that's what the word
"causes means. We might not fully understand how or why botany and
astronomy are related in this way but there would be no doubt that
they are. However we DON'T get these experimental results in the
real world so we say the flower does not cause the sun to rise.
When the chemistry of the brain changes the conscious experience
that the brain produces always changes, AND when the chemistry does
not change the conscious experience never changes, thus we can say
with great confidence that chemistry causes consciousness because
that's what the word "causes" means. We might not fully understand
how or why chemistry and consciousness are related in this way but
there is no doubt that they are. We DO get these experimental
results in the real world so we say that if matter is organized in
certain ways it produces consciousness.
> Two unrelated systems can both be related to a third,
>> If they are both related to the same thing then they are not
unrelated.
> They can be unrelated except for their mutual relation to the
third thing though, obviously.
Besides that Mrs Lincoln how did you like the play? I am unrelated
to my sister except for our mutual relation to our parents, obviously.
John K Clark
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