On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Craig Weinberg <[email protected]>wrote:
> > > On Friday, April 19, 2013 11:05:28 AM UTC-4, Terren Suydam wrote: > >> >> On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Stathis Papaioannou >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> But you claim that it is impossible to conceive of consciousness >>> supervening on function. A religious person would claim that it >>> impossible to conceive of consciousness as residing anywhere other >>> than in the spiritual realm. Both your positions seem to essentially >>> be based on the argument from incredulity: see, this lump of coal is >>> inert and dead, how could anything derived from it possibly have >>> feelings? >>> >>> >> Craig's "theory" is essentially equivalent with explaining consciousness >> in terms of the religious 'soul'. >> > > Nope. Soul is anthropmorphic. Sense is generic and universal. I am talking > physics, not religion. > > It's a distinction without a difference. Making it generic and universal as opposed to anthropomorphic doesn't change anything... it is still the uncomputable "generator" of qualia. > He argues that "sense" is primary, and that the top-down causality of >> intention translates to the bottom-up causality of physics, >> > > Not always, not. There is bottom up, top down, inside out, outside > in...all kinds of causality. > > Makes no difference. > and, crucially, that top-down intention is not computable, i.e. that it is >> not possible for such top-down intention to emerge in any kind of >> simulation, at any level. This is almost exactly the same thing as saying >> that what animates us is our god-given soul. >> > > Nope. I am saying that top-down intentions emerge from proprietary > diffractions of the eternal experience. It's more Vedic or Taoist than > Christian, but where I differ from Vedic or Taoist conceptions is that I do > not see matter as illusion or Maya, but as the concrete public > presentations which orthomodularly re-present private experiences. > > In what conceivable way does "proprietary diffractions of the eternal experience" differ from something equally as ambiguous as "divine spark"? > >> Such stories exist in part to assuage the discomfort of uncertainty or >> existential angst, and stop any further inquiry by defining the fundamental >> mystery of existence in absolute terms. It is no different from saying that >> the way things are is God's will. >> > > Haha, if you see my last response to Stathis, you will see that my story > offers no comfort nor discomfort - it is pure science which merely accounts > for the actual universe as it is rather than what our mechanistic or > animistic compulsions tell us it cannot be. The only advantage that my view > offers is that it reveals consciousness as it actually is. > > Pure science would give you a means to test your ideas. You are simply philosophizing about metaphysics. Your view reveals nothing. It tells a story. It is up to the listener to decide whether they want to place their faith in the story you tell, because you provide no arguments that can be tested in any empirical way. Terren > Craig > >> >> Terren >> >> >>> -- >>> Stathis Papaioannou >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-li...@**googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.**com. >>> >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >>> . >>> For more options, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
