On 5/27/2013 2:18 PM, John Mikes wrote:
do you indeed exclude the "other" animals from being selfconcious? or - having a logic on their own level? Or any other trait we assign (identify?) for humans - in our terms?

A question about plants (rather: about being conscious):
you may feel free to define 'being conscious' in human terms, or mammal (etc.) terms, but the "response" plants exude to information (circumstances, impact. etc.) shows reactivity we may appropriate to us humans.

So do not deny consciousness from fellow DNA-bearing plants.

How about the DNA-not-bearing other creatures? (crystals, stones, water, impact you may call energy, - whatever?)
Anthropocentric? zoocentric? phitocentric? what-CENTRIC?

I don't think consciousness is an all-or-nothing property. You have to ask "Consciousness of what?" There's consciousness of surroundings: sound, photons, temperature, chemical concentrations.... There's consciousness of internal states. Consciousness of sex. Consciousness of one's location. Consciousness of one's status in a tribe. I think human-like consciousness requires language of some kind.



On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be <mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote:

    On 26 May 2013, at 13:29, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:

        "The absence of a neocortex does not appear to preclude an organism from
        experiencing affective states. Convergent evidence indicates that 
        animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological
        substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit 
        behaviors.  Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans 
are not
        unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate 
        Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other 
        including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates."


    Always a pleasure, if not some relief, to hear that.

    My opinion, for what is worth, is that all animals are conscious, and the 
    described above are already self-conscious, and "potentially Löbian" 
(meaning: like
    you, me, and Peano Arithmetic).

    Are plants conscious? I don't know.


    http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/%7Emarchal/>

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