-----Original Message-----
From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Wed, Jun 12, 2013 12:35 pm
Subject: Re: ROADMARKERS ON THE ROAD NOT TAKEN (LEIBNIZ VS
MATERIALISM)
On 12 Jun 2013, at 12:31, [email protected] wrote:
Please allow my incipid observation. Rather then invoke non-
material monads, let us, for arguments sake, assume that thought is
a neurochemical phenomena, and that without this neurochemical
phenomena, there is no thought. Similarly, mathematics as a
phenomena, doesn't exist without a human primate, writing on the
soil with a stick, marking clay or wax tablets, ink on paper, or
human fingers executing a computer program. All material, from
beginning to end. Is there any evidence, of the existence of non-
material things?
Yes, the objectivity of arithmetic or theoretical computer science.
Are there evidences that matter has an ontological existence?
(Besides the retaively self-moving entity's extrapolation in a local
neighborhood)
It seems to me there are more evidence that the physical has a
mathematical origin.
It is indeed a necessity in case we bet the brain/body/local
universe is Turing emulable.
Matter and energy are interesting, but not necessarily a primitive
notion. Physicalism is by itself a strong assumption, incompatible
with a simple and elegant theory of mind (computer science/
arithmetic).
Anyway, this makes comp testable, so we can test it.
Bruno
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Clough <[email protected]>
To: - Roger Clough <[email protected]>
Sent: Tue, Jun 11, 2013 6:44 am
Subject: ROADMARKERS ON THE ROAD NOT TAKEN (LEIBNIZ VS MATERIALISM)
ROADMARKERS ON THE ROAD NOT TAKEN (LEIBNIZ VS MATERIALISM)
A.EXISTENCE
LEIBNIZ-- Mental (Nonphysical) + Physical
MATERIALISM-- Physical, only in spacetime
B. REALITY
LEIBNIZ-- Only mental is real
MATERIALISM- Only physical is real
C. SPACETIME
LEIBNIZ Exists only around physical bodies
MATERIALISM The nonphysical is beyond spacetime, the physical is
within it.
D. IDEAS
LEIBNIZ-- Exist mentally
MATERIALISM --Do not exist , since not phjysical
E. MATHEMATICS
LEIBNIZ-- Only logic and numbers mentally exist.
MATERIALISM-- Does not exist
F. PHYSICS
LEIBNIZ--Mentally exists as descriptions of particle behavior
according to God's Pre- `existing Harmony
MATERIALISM—Ill-defined. Physics seems to be embedded (?) in the
particles
F. GOD
LEIBNIZ--Is the only active agent (doer and perceiver) in the
universe--
and so is necessary for existence.
MATERIALISM-- Is a fairy tale.
G. NOTHING
LEIBNIZ--- The space vacuum. The absence of a particle
MATERIALISM--Can exist everywhere
H. HUMAN AFFAIRS
LEIBNIZ-- Incorporates psychology and can be applied to sociology
MATERIALISM-- Seems to avoid the subject.
I. PERCEPTION
LEIBNIZ-- The ultimate perceiver is God.
MATERIALISM-- Omits the ultimate perceiver since it cannot explain
self.
J. SCIENTIFIC ACCEPTANCE
LEIBNIZ-- Unexplored by science or explored only to the extent that
God, spirit, souil nd mind are seen to be necessary nonphysical
entities necessary for existence. Endorsing eibniz is a career-
buster.
MATERIALISM-- Enthusiastically accepted and utilized. It acts as a
cult.
K. QUANTUM MECHANICS, NONLOCAL OR OTHERWISE
LEIBNIZ-- All corporeal bodies share and partcipate in the space of
existence according
to their capabilities, which means that more dominant quanta
dominate the less dominant
and would seem to participagte in a wider range of differences.
MATERIALISM-- QM is not possible since only physical entities exist.
L. PHYSICAL VS NONPHYSICAL
LEIBNIZ-- The physical is within spacetime, the nonphysical (the
spiritual or mental orld) is outside of spacetime.
MATERIALISM-- Only the physical exists.
M. THE PARANORMAL
LEIBNIZ-- The paranormal is normal, but based on the nonphysical
world outside of spacetime.
MATERIALISM-- Up front is always not to be taken seriously.
N. COSMOLOGY--ORIGIN OF THE UNIVERSE
LEIBNIZ-- Every monad has an indestructable soul which has been
here from the creation of the universe, or else has been created or
destroyed by God . My personal view is that this would allow for
creation of matter from mind such as in the Big Bang”.
MATERIALISM-- The classic position is that the universe has always
been,
but there are modern scientific theories of the “Big Bang”.
O. LIFE
LEIBNIZ-- Everything in the universe is alive.
MATERIALISM-- There are vaious materialistic accounts of the
formation of life.
P. DEATH
LEIBNIZ-- Everything in the universe is alive. Each living things
“unfolds” from its soul
or monad as a seed unfolds into a living plant. At death, the
rotting body stays attached to its monad, just as in
Christianity we sleep after death until resurrected with a new body
in the Second Coming
MATERIALISM-- The termination of what is believed to be life.
Q. DETERMINISM
LEIBNIZ-- Every body in the universe moves according to a “Pre-
established Harmony
(PEH)”. In my personal view this allows for what might be called
“effective free choice”, meaning that only choices in accord with
the PEH are possible.
MATERIALISM-- The termination of what is believed to be life.
R. DIVINE INTERVENTION IN THE WORLD
LEIBNIZ-- No divine intervention is possible or needed, since
during the week of Creation, God drew up his Pre-established
Harmony (the PEH) and rested on the 7th day, while the universe
plays out according to this script without God's interventions.
Since the PEH foresaw and acted according to all events, good or
bad, this would allow for prayer to work or not work. Thus the PEH
can be thought of as a divine musical composition or all-knowing
computer program running on its own. In a sense, the PEH is God
asleep.
MATERIALISM-- Since there is no God, there can be no divine
intervention.
S. INTELLIGENCE
LEIBNIZ-- The ability to make choices autonomously, not by some
computer program.
Every body in the universe moves according to a “Pre-established
Harmony” (PEH) .
MATERIALISM-- Matter may be intelligent, but we do not know its
language.
There is something call “artificial intgelligence” used in
computerbut a computer, but
e termination of what is believed to be life.
T. CONSCIOUNESS
LEIBNIZ-- Internal perception (see above), requiring a subject
(self) and object.
MATERIALISM-- Seems to me to be impossible, since materialism has
no self
to perceive or be conscious.
U. MIND-BODY PROBLEM
LEIBNIZ-- Since mind and body are both mental, there is no such
problem.
MATERIALISM-- Seems to me to be impossible, since materialism has
no self
to perceive or be conscious.
V. THE FUNDAMENTAL REALITY
LEIBNIZ-- Mind and the subjective world
MATERIALISM-- Matter and the objective world.
- Roger Clough
Dr. Roger Clough NIST (ret.) 6/11/2013
See my Leibniz site at
http://team.academia.edu/RogerClough
____________________________________________________________________
DreamMail - Your mistake not to try it once, but my mistake for
your leaving off. use again www.dreammail.org
<%--DreamMail_AD_END-->
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to everything-
[email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to everything-
[email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
