Brent -- yes there is that stability and durability of the change aspect, and that would be a significant handicap for any epigenetic hereditary mechanism. I agree that in this sense DNA based hereditary mechanisms seem better suited and epigenetic ones more dicey. However, even though an epigenetic change may be less permanent than a DNA based hereditary change if environmental pressures continue to favor it what's to say that it does not under these circumstances -- i.e. in a regimen of continued beneficial feedback -- acquire a kind of meta-stability. That is to say if some epigenetic change has occurred and spread in a population because it is beneficial (or desired by a breeder) what would make it spontaneously disappear as long as some survival fitness benefit accrued to the individuals possessing the phenotype resulting form the epigenetic hereditary mechanism. In this scenario would not the continued environmental pressures favor those individuals with the epigenetically altered phenotypes and so continue promoting the hereditary success of the epigenetic mutation? Often, in fact it seems, given traits that have been selected for, by breeding, begin to disappear after just a few generations from a population that has been left to revert to a wild state and after the selective breeding (environmental pressure) stops favoring the expression of those traits -- perhaps because, while good for the farmer they are not so good for the animal species in it's natural setting. Could this not indicate that these traits had an epigenetic hereditary mechanism underlying them, and that this is why they revert so easily. Cheers, -Chris D
________________________________ From: meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> To: firstname.lastname@example.org Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Serious proof of why the theory of evolution is wrong On 8/13/2013 12:00 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote: John >> Epigenetic changes do not change the sequence of bases in DNA, and more important I see no evidence that the body has learned any lessons. I see no evidence that epigenetic changes are more likely to happen in the direction of greater adaptability rather than the reverse. All I see is the environment causing random changes in hereditary factors that, like all changes, are more likely to be harmful than helpful. > >Sure, but then neither do random mutations to an organisms DNA, imply that the >body has learned anything either. The introduction of some random change is >either harmful, beneficial or of little or no consequence to the individual, >whether this phenotypical change is the result of inhibiting or promoting the >expression of some underlying DNA or how that DNA get's transcribed, or is the >result of an actual change in the individuals sequence of DNA. >What you say about epigenetic changes: "environment causing random changes in >hereditary factors" applies as much to the classical hereditary mechanism of >DNA changes. > >Evolution only happens after multiple generations of selective pressure have >either, presumably weeded out harmful maladaptations and promoted beneficial >ones. There is nothing qualitatively different in random DNA mutation or >random methylation and so forth. They are both instances of mutations in an >organisms hereditary mechanisms. Why make one a first class citizen and the >other an interloper? > >Naturally I am not arguing that epigenetic re-wiring is as permanent or >important as classic genetic based heredity; it certainly seems more >reversible for example. But isn't that the problem with epigenetic 'evolution'. Evolution requires faithful reproduction sufficient at least to create a local breeding population. My understanding of epigenetics is that it is hit-or-miss after only a couple of generations. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.