On 01 Dec 2013, at 18:04, Jesse Mazer wrote:

Chalmers a materialist? That seems like a pretty bizarre and/or uninformed description, given that the idea he is best-known for is that the "hard problem" of first-person qualia can never be solved by materialist explanations (even if the so-called "easy problem" of explaining third-person behaviors, including everything we say and write, probably could be), and requires either a dualist ontology or a panpsychist idealist one (although he argues that even if we accept panpsychism, it would still be a "dual-aspect" theory since there would be a distinction between "information states" and the qualia associated with each one). Have you read his book "The Conscious Mind"?

Chalmers is still a weak-materialist, making him non computationalist in the weak sense I propose, but that could explain why he stops at step 3 in the UDA. He is also dualist, and defends, in that book, the Everett interpretation, which is, as well explained by Primas notably, the essence of Everett theory (QM without collapse).

Dennett's problem is that it take the problem of matter basically solved, which is not the case, and eventually flirts seriously with the elimination of the person and consciousness.

Chalmers is not an eliminativist, but seems to ignore comp and the FPI. Both ignores computer science and the fact that we can already listen to the machines.

I have enjoyed Dennett's Brainstorm very much, and in "Minds" I" he get close to the FPI, in his novel "Where am I". But his "consciouness explained" is the billionth physicalist attempt to put the person under the rug. Both the intuitive FPI, and the logic of self-reference illustrates a sort of correctness of the intuition: as it shows that IF Matter exists then the person is an illusion. With comp the person is not an illusion (we have to ask her yes or no) so only Matter can be an illusion.

In this list I have sometimes said "materialist" for "weak materialist", to avoid the repetition. A weak materialist is a believer in primitive matter. A materialist in philosophy of mind is for someone who believes only in Matter, and is of course automatically a weak-materialist. Comp+occam is thus inconsistent with both weak materialism (the belief in Matter) and materialism (the belief in only Matter).


Bruno










Jesse

On Saturday, November 30, 2013, Roger Clough wrote:
Online opinions of Dennett and Chalmers-- the clueless two

Dennett never tells us what conscilousness is, because
conciouness rwequires a perceiver, and he hasn't a clue as to what that is,
because that concept is foreign to his materialism.

He's clueless. And famous as well maybe because with that
beard he looks like a philosopher ought to look.

Chalmers is in the same hole as Dennett is
he is also a materialist wuithout a perceiver.
With his long wild hair he may seem to some to
know what he's talking about. But he's also
clueless, which is why we have the "hard problem
of consciousnwess


Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
See my Leibniz site at
http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough

gh


        
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

Reply via email to