On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

>
> On 14 Dec 2013, at 23:27, LizR wrote:
>
> I haven't had a chance to watch it, but I do know that banks are stealing
> our wealth - as indeed are rich people generally, since "wealth breeds more
> wealth" and that more wealth has to be extracted from you and me.
>
>
>
> Money and richness is not a problem. It is the blood of the social system.
>
> Money and richness is a problem only when it is based on lies, and when it
> is used to hide the lies and perpetuate them.
>
> Honest money enrich everybody. True, it is slower for poor, and quicker
> for the rich, but when people play the game "honestly", everyone win, and
> poverty regress.
>
> In a working economy, there are few poor. Presence of poverty means that
> there are stealers and bandits (or war or catastrophes). Accusing the
> system and money itself is all benefices for the bandits. It dilutes their
> responsibility and wrong-doing in the abstract. It helps them to feel like
> not guilty.
>
> As I said, criticizing the economical system is like attributing to the
> blood cells the responsibility of some tumor since the blood cells feeds
> it. It hides the real root of the problem, and focus on the wrong target.
>

I agree, unsurprisingly. :)
I also agree with Liz, in that it is clear who is stealing the money.

The "rich get richer" is a very fundamental phenomenon. Even if we remove
money from society, it will still happen because it also applies to social
interactions. The more friends and alliances you have, the more likely you
are to get new ones. This is the reason why every entrepreneur seeks the
allegiance of celebrities. It's a more subtle form of currency.

However, we got trapped into a system that effectively amplifies "rich get
richer" dynamics. This system is central banking -- since the powerful have
the capacity to issue fiat money in the form of debt, two things happen:

- The money I have in my pocket is not safe. They can devalue it and there
is nothing I can do about it. They have a strong incentive to devalue my
money because they can give the new money they created to their allies,
through sophisticated mechanisms. It is very cleverly disguised, but it's
still plain old theft;
- The more wealthy, who can invest, can leverage their investments by
orders of greatness. The more money you have, the more you can leverage it
(by effectively creating new "fake" money). The poor are the most
vulnerable to the inevitable systemic collapse that a debt-based economy
will create. The poor implicitly risk their homes and means of survival
when the rich play the big casino game of leveraged investments, derivative
markets and so on.

Bitcoin might solve these two problems.

Telmo.


> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 15 December 2013 04:45, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> How the banks are stealing our wealth.
>>
>> This seems to be factual, and is non-politcal.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0Hi - Roger Clough
>>
>> You'll need to watch it at least twice to understand it,
>> it's very complicated. And scarey.
>>
>> Pass it on.
>>
>>  Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
>> See my Leibniz site at
>>  http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
>>
>>
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