On 15 Dec 2013, at 13:23, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
On 14 Dec 2013, at 23:27, LizR wrote:
I haven't had a chance to watch it, but I do know that banks are
stealing our wealth - as indeed are rich people generally, since
"wealth breeds more wealth" and that more wealth has to be
extracted from you and me.
Money and richness is not a problem. It is the blood of the social
system.
Money and richness is a problem only when it is based on lies, and
when it is used to hide the lies and perpetuate them.
Honest money enrich everybody. True, it is slower for poor, and
quicker for the rich, but when people play the game "honestly",
everyone win, and poverty regress.
In a working economy, there are few poor. Presence of poverty means
that there are stealers and bandits (or war or catastrophes).
Accusing the system and money itself is all benefices for the
bandits. It dilutes their responsibility and wrong-doing in the
abstract. It helps them to feel like not guilty.
As I said, criticizing the economical system is like attributing to
the blood cells the responsibility of some tumor since the blood
cells feeds it. It hides the real root of the problem, and focus on
the wrong target.
I agree, unsurprisingly. :)
I also agree with Liz, in that it is clear who is stealing the money.
The "rich get richer" is a very fundamental phenomenon.
It is self-proportional phenonemon. I think the number e has been
discovered on that occasion. by Neper y = Ae^rt.
Even if we remove money from society, it will still happen because
it also applies to social interactions. The more friends and
alliances you have, the more likely you are to get new ones.
Self-proportionality occurs everywhere. It is when the consequences
feedback the causes. The more there is rabbits, the more there is baby
rabbits.
This is the reason why every entrepreneur seeks the allegiance of
celebrities. It's a more subtle form of currency.
However, we got trapped into a system that effectively amplifies
"rich get richer" dynamics. This system is central banking -- since
the powerful have the capacity to issue fiat money in the form of
debt, two things happen:
For a simple minded mathematician used to Platonia, only one thing
happen: the money get value 0. Debt is a good investment in term of
trust, and that is always contextual. Deregulation of markets, like
deregulation of black markets re easy tools for bandits. It is not
capitalism, it is banditism.
- The money I have in my pocket is not safe. They can devalue it and
there is nothing I can do about it. They have a strong incentive to
devalue my money because they can give the new money they created to
their allies, through sophisticated mechanisms. It is very cleverly
disguised, but it's still plain old theft;
- The more wealthy, who can invest, can leverage their investments
by orders of greatness. The more money you have, the more you can
leverage it (by effectively creating new "fake" money). The poor are
the most vulnerable to the inevitable systemic collapse that a debt-
based economy will create. The poor implicitly risk their homes and
means of survival when the rich play the big casino game of
leveraged investments, derivative markets and so on.
You are right. It divides the societies into bandits/hostages + stolen
people. Society get pyramidal.
Bitcoin might solve these two problems.
Bitcoin, or namecoin might help a lot. A serious investment in basic
education too, with the art of doing mistakes, recognizing mistakes,
correcting mistakes.
All use of coins can be perverted by some bandits. There is no
universal immunity. But we can make the probability lower, and the
economical catastrophes rarer, if we learn to not repeat too much the
same mistakes.
We must avoid monopoly in all matters. I think.
Perhaps "politician" should not be a profession. We would vote for
programs and ideas, and let them implemented by a random sample of the
population through some social services, or by well sworn robots or
the net. We must find ways of keeping well the separation of the
powers.
Bruno
Telmo.
Bruno
On 15 December 2013 04:45, Roger Clough <rclo...@verizon.net> wrote:
How the banks are stealing our wealth.
This seems to be factual, and is non-politcal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0Hi - Roger Clough
You'll need to watch it at least twice to understand it,
it's very complicated. And scarey.
Pass it on.
Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
See my Leibniz site at
http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
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