2013/12/30 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> > > On 30 Dec 2013, at 12:39, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > > All, >> >> In response to the discussion of the possibility of a "Final Theory" I'm >> starting a new topic on the Nature of Truth since this is an important and >> separate issue from previous discussions. >> >> >> 1, it is impossible to directly know the external fundamental reality, we >> know external reality only filtered through the structures of our own >> minds. What we really know is only our own mental model of external reality >> which is provably very very different than actual external reality. >> >> 2, However we can easily prove that we do know external fundamental >> reality to an extent sufficient for us to function reasonably effectively >> within it. If we didn't have some actual true knowledge of external reality >> we could not even function within it and thus could not exist. So our very >> existence in actual reality demonstrates we do have some true knowledge of >> it. (This true knowledge consists of snippets of logical structure rather >> than the physical world we believe it to be.) >> > > That are belief, not knowledge. > > Then, what is knowledge? the one derived from mathematical deductions based on the belief on + and succ ?
> Standard theories of knowledge accepts the axiom Know(p) -> p. (If I know > p, then it is the case that p). > > > > > >> 3. External reality is a consistent logical structure. >> > > What do you mean by reality and external reality. You make a strong > assumption here. > > > > > It is computed, >> > > That is so strong that it is inconsistent. > > > > > and for it to be computed it must follow consistent logical rules. >> >> 4. Therefore the only real test of truth is its internal logical >> consistency over the entire scope of knowledge. We can not directly compare >> our knowledge to the external world because it is filtered through the >> structures of our own senses and minds, but we do know that our knowledge >> is truth to the extent it is internally self-consistent over maximum scope. >> > > Knowledge needs correctness ([]p -> p), but consistency is much weaker > ([]f -> f). Correct implies consistent, but consistent does not imply > correct. > > > > > >> 5. In fact this is the actual working basis of scientific method, >> forensics, our successful functioning in daily life and in all human >> endeavors that seek truth. Namely is the body of knowledge in question >> internally consistent. If it is not then something is UNtrue. >> >> This is the Consistency Theory of Knowledge. Consistency over maximum >> scope IS truth, the only truth possible to know. >> > > You are not using those terms with the usual meaning. I guess you mean > "belief" when you say "knowledge". > Machine's knowledge is not definable by machine. > Machine's consistency is definable by machine, but not provable by > consistent machine. > > > > > >> There is and can be no direct knowledge of truth, there is only >> consistency. >> >> This applies to all types of truth, from the logical structures in daily >> life moment to moment, as well as to knowledge of a "Final Theory". >> >> >> There is however one important exception. Our mental model of reality is >> part of the actual external reality, and we do have direct knowledge of >> that. The truth of that is the thing itself. But its truth is an internal >> mental model of external reality, not the external reality it pretends to >> be. >> > > The truth of that is consciousness, which is undoubtable and incorrigible, > but that does not say much on the nature of the "external reality", if that > exists. > > Bruno > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
