Dear Alberto, On Tuesday, January 21, 2014 4:44:18 AM UTC-5, Alberto G.Corona wrote: > > Liz, Richard: > > I´m not talking about global reduction of entropy neither of the > universe neither a star, planet of black hole, but a local decrease of > entropy at the cost of a (bigger) increase of entropy in the > surroundings, so that the global entropy grows. > > I mean local. A computation becomes whatever that permit the pumping > of entropy from inwards to outwards and thus maintain the integrity of > the entity that computes to do further computations. That is the > definition of life in physical terms. so that life and computation are > entangled in some way. The byproduct of this activity is an increase > of entropy of the surroundings. No thermodynamical or any other > physical law is violated. >
Like a refrigerator.... > > Within this definition, a computer alone does not perform computations > a man that uses the computer to calculate his VAT declaration is > performing a computation, because doing so the man has the information > to deal with entropy increase produced by law enforcers. The > semaphore system in a city perform computations when considering the > system as the city as a whole. for the same reason. but also any > living being computes as well. > Right! Beware of thinking in terms of isolated objects! > > There hasn´t to be digital. analogic, chemical computations, for > example, hormone levels can be part of a computation. Neurons are not > digital. the activation potentials are not quantized to certains > discrete levels. Digital computation, for example in DNA > encoding-decoding or in the case of digital computers are good for > storing and communicating information for a long time against > environmental noise. Shannon law demonstrate why it is so. there is > nothing magic about digital. But when noise is not a concern, > analogical paths of chemical reactions with protein catalizers perform > fine computations. More often than not, computation is > analogic-digital. Living beings do it so. But also human systems, a > car with a man inside, keeps entropy so there is a analogico-digital > computation going on. > > So computation in this sense means not only computation as such but > also perception or data input -or information intake- and a proper > response (as result of the computation) in the physical world that > keeps the internal entropy. > Right on! > > 2014/1/20, Alberto G. Corona <[email protected] <javascript:>>: > > Computation is understood as whatever made by a digital computer or > > something that can be emulated (or aproximated) by a digital computer. > > So everything is a computation. That is a useless definition. because > > it embrace everything. > > > > Everything is legoland because everything can be emulated using lego > > pieces? No, my dear legologist. > > > > What about this definition? Computation is whatever that reduces > > entropy. In information terms, in the human context, computation is > > whatever that reduces uncertainty producing useful information and > > thus, in the environment of human society, a computer program is used > > ultimately to get that information and reduce entropy, that is to > > increase order in society, or at least for the human that uses it. > > > > A simulation is an special case of the latter. > > > > So there are things that are computations: what the living beings do > > at the chemical, physiological or nervous levels (and rational, social > > and technological level in case of humans) . But there are things that > > are not computations: almost everything else. > > > > > > -- > > Alberto. > > > > > -- > Alberto. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
