On 27 Jan 2014, at 13:21, Stephen Paul King wrote:
Dear Bruno,
I think that where we differ is in how we think of numbers: I see
them as merely representational, Parmenidean, you see them as more.
But numbers can be used to represent things, like an address, but they
are not themselves representational.
The Heraclitean aspect is far more than "& p" for me.
What more, and how do you prove that?
Bruno
On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 4:54 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 26 Jan 2014, at 23:26, Stephen Paul King wrote:
Dear LizR,
You and Bruno have often complained that my postings lack
rigor... For a nice formal representation of Heraclitean "streams"
click here and read the bit about hypersets. BTW, this is a concept
almost identical to what Lou Kauffman uses in his notion of
eigenforms.
It is the Dx = "xx" method. I don't see what is Heraclitean. On the
contrary, it is Parmenidian, and the Heraclitean aspect is recovered
by the "& p" nuance. More on this later (we need more modal logic).
Bruno
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Stephen Paul King <[email protected]
> wrote:
Dear LizR,
On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 5:14 PM, LizR <[email protected]> wrote:
On 26 January 2014 23:03, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
On 25 Jan 2014, at 14:15, David Nyman wrote:
On 25 January 2014 09:21, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
Maybe the difference in intuition is because she doesn't think
about it in Hoyle's "universalist" way, although ISTM this is
implicit in the heuristic (i.e. the "guy" is the unique and non-
simultaneous "owner" of the experiences in all the pigeon holes).
Without the flashlight, I think what people do is think of
themselves as situated in some pigeon hole or other and then, as
it were, imaginatively "select" some continuation sequence of
pigeon holes from there.
Yes. But we can still believe in the "universalist view", through
the amnesia and the return in the universal baby state, which then
can be related to the universal consciousness of the universal
person. In that sense we are right now the same person, but
relatively amnesic of all particularities which distinguish us.
Yes indeed, it is the amnesia that "compartmentalises" us. But
it's the "right now" that strikes me (and, I presume, struck
Hoyle) as something of an an equivocation, at least in the pigeon
hole analogy.
I gues that's why some people want time, if not present-time, as a
primitive. I can understand the feeling, but I think that with comp
it is a sort of delusion.
Watching "Memento" gives some idea of what's really going on, by
showing what life would be like after a partial breakdown of how
the brain fools us into thinking we have continuous existence. It
isn't too much of a stretch from imagining living in 5 minute
segments to realising that we could equally well live in instants,
with all of our memory being what's there right now, what's
available to us in that instant, that pgeonhole. After all,
logically, given the assumption of locality in physics, that's all
we'd expect to be available.
"'Because, like all of us in our daily lives, you're stuck with a
grotesque and absurd illusion.'
'How's that?'
'The idea of time as an ever-rolling stream. The thing which is
supposed to bear all its sons away. There's one thing quite certain
in this business: the idea of time as a steady progression from
past to future is wrong. I know very well we feel this way about it
subjectively. But we're the victims of a confidence trick...
Fred Hoyle, "October the First is Too Late"
HA! Hoyle here undermines the idea that we can obtain time merely
from the well ordering of integers! I focus on the action, ever-
rolling stream, the "progression"; the ordering of events are the
mere products of the stream, not the origin of the streaming.
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