On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 7:56 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 1/27/2014 3:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 27 Jan 2014, at 06:55, meekerdb wrote: > > On 1/26/2014 9:19 PM, LizR wrote: > > On 27 January 2014 17:31, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > >> On 1/26/2014 6:44 PM, LizR wrote: >> >> On 27 January 2014 14:08, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: >> >>> On 1/26/2014 3:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> I have provided the definition. Should I repeat? >>> God is the transcendental reality we bet on, and which is supposed to be >>> responsible for my or our existence. >>> >>> Sounds like "physics" to me. >>> >> >> If physics is transcendental, a lot of people may be wasting their time >> trying to find a TOE. >> >> Depends on what "transcendental" things have to transcend. Bruno's >> fond of pointing out that physicist just assume that matter is fundamental >> but don't define it. Of course they might say, "It's whatever we find to >> be fundamental...and we're calling it doG." >> >> Transcendental does have a lot of meanings, depending on who's using > it, but generally I'd take it to be something like "beyond our > understanding", hence my (tongue in cheek) comment. > > I think Bruno has a point. Well, at least, I'd be disappointed if > physicist decided that they couldn't explain matter etc, and that they > should just "shut up and calculate" from now on. > > > Refer to my discourse on solving "the hard problem". If you calculate > stuff accurately and predict stuff that surprising, people will think > you've explained it. > > > By definition, that can solve only the easy problem. You just dismiss > the hard problem. > > Yet, the hard problem is 99,9% solvable, but with the price that > physicalism is wrong. net adavantage, we do get an explanation, not only > for consciousness, but also for the origin of matter. > > Here I 'm afraid you tend to be an eliminativist, here. > > > That's the main point. Science has advanced and people *suppose* that it > has explained gravity and electromagnetism and atoms and descent of species > and lots of other stuff. But what it has done is show their relations and > made accurate predictions AND *eliminated* the things people asked to be > explained: Newton didn't explain what pushed the planets around. Darwin > didn't explain how animals adapted. Maxwell didn't explain the > luminiferous ether. Just like we can't explain to Edgar how gravity gets > out of a black hole. Science advances a lot by "eliminativism". > I think science loses something when respect for ignorance and limits of knowledge, and other ignoramus ideas of old Greeks, gives way completely to liberty in all directions, eliminating everything in its path. What's left is our local animal, bestial thing, which science then increasingly has to serve because dominance stands unopposed as value and point of reference: NSA building quatum computers, weapons, fossil fuel stuff, wars, discrimination and construction of "enemies" in public mind, etc. become much easier to justify. So sure yeah, there's no limit to what you can do when you eliminate and don't care about x. Louis C.K. had a good one: "Wow, I can't believe we built the pyramids - yeah, we just threw human death and suffering at them until they were built. There's no end to what we can achieve when we don't give a sh•t how to get there..." Science that advances by eliminativism comes with a price and some side-effects. And the ignoramus Greeks were on to this already. Ends can only justify means in some particular real emergency, not on lies, and the toughness of this question is underestimated. PGC > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
