On 25 Jan 2014, at 20:00, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 4:41 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
> You attack the straw man, again.
Billions of people believe in this "straw man" , and that is exactly
why using the word "God" is totally irresponsible if you're not
talking about a intelligent conscious being who created the universe.
Except for Jehovah witness, I have never met one. I have never met a
Christian believing in the fairy tale notion of god. I have seen
creationist on TV, but those are not billions.
The sad truth is that I have only met atheists defending that
conception of God.
> This was not the definition of "god" that I gave.
For you "God" need not be intelligent nor conscious nor even be a
being, and that means you've twisted the word complete out of shape,
presumably because you feel that your mouth makes a plesent sound
when it says "God".
I have provided the definition. Should I repeat?
God is the transcendental reality we bet on, and which is supposed to
be responsible for my or our existence.
If you believe that only a primitive physical reality plays that role,
then you make that physical reality into a god.
But some other people can believe in a god distinct from that physical
reality, and with comp, it seems we get a Plotinian view on reality.
Which has a God (not a thinking one, but still comparable to the
Abramanic God in other respects). And the physical reality is an
experience from inside the outer basic reality, and arithmetical truth
can play that role.
Is that truth a person? Open problem.
>> So being intelligent or even conscious is no longer an essential
ingredient that "God" must have,
> Open problem.
No it is not, for virtually everybody being intelligent and
conscious are more important attributes than even omnipotence that
something must have to be called God. To use the word "God" for
something mindless is ridiculous.
I like the idea. But with comp, any nameable intelligent entities, and
being non-machines, will be close to God, but still different from It.
>>> It has no name.
>> Which hasn't prevented you from giving it a name G-O-D!
> See Plotinus
No thanks, Greek philosophers were ignoramuses.
In theology, they were not confronted to 1500 years of authoritative
arguments like thus.
You talk like a brainwashed catholic. Some of greek philosophy were
still declared pagan heresy to my father teacher in catholic school.
You talk like a fundamentalist catholic I'm afraid.
But this makes me happy, to tell you the truth, because you are a
wonderful confirmation that atheism are more catholic than the pope.
> Well. Comp answers this question clearly and unambiguously.
Well good for "comp".
> dawkins believe in the Aristotelian God "Nature", or "Physical
universe".
The above sentence is absolutely true, provided of course that words
can mean whatever you choose them to mean.
> the UDA shows that comp is incompatible with such notion of God.
I've looked but I don't see where it's mentioned, see if you can
find it:
http://uda.varsity.com/
UDA is not "universal Dance Association", but it is that famous
argument where you become irrational at the step 3, like everybody
have gently try to show you. You remember? the one you understand
recurrently, even as being too much simple, but suddenly, when asked
about step 4, you come back to your repeated confusion between the
first person and the thrid person description. of course you know
that. You seem just disingenuous here.
> You talk like a priest who is shocked because some dare to doubt
your "God", or conception of reality.
Wow, calling a guy known for disliking religion religious, never
heard that one before, at least I never heard it before I was 12.
Only pseudo-religious people dislike religion. People saying "I have
no religion" are people who want to impose a religion to others. They
can't doubt, and they can stay cold in front of the fundamental
questioning. They argue by authoritative argument (in the best case!),
if not by violence, insult and mockery. But that defeat their points.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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