On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 16 Feb 2014, at 17:41, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On 15 Feb 2014, at 23:17, Russell Standish wrote: >> >> > > snip > > >> >> >> >> but IMHO their intelligence equals that of some mammals or birds, and >>> clearly outclasses fish. >>> >> >> I agree. >> >> >> >> >> I think I mentioned the anecdote which >>> convinced me they exhibit a second order theory of the mind, which may >>> well be sufficient for consciousness. >>> >> You still have a link to that anecdote? I'd be interested. > >> Which I call self-consciousness, and I think this is already Löbianitty. >> I do think that all animals have the "first order" consciousness, they >> can feel pain, and find it unpleasant, but can't reflect on it, nor assess >> "I feel pain". they still can react appropriately. I m not sure, but it >> fits better with the whole picture. >> > > Also the survival of the little flamboyant one, that just gave up on > swimming, mostly marching the sea floor, totally exposed to all predators, > not bluffing poison because it actually is poisonous; when the rest of its > kind is a delicacy for anything larger. > > Strange that the predators believe the display of colors; "OK, we believe > you little guy" without having gone to the lab... and that this one > survived, not by speed, or camouflage but by disco sign that reads: > "remember, I'm not fooling around, these colors are for real. I really am > not like the rest of my kind, you like to eat. We get that, and we have an > update. That's why I'm not swimming away. Simple really: you eat me, you're > in trouble or you die. You better swim on and let me do my things here, k? > Good." PGC > > > > The champion of faking is no more faking anymore, LOL. > > :-) This had me on the floor, almost. If this happened in that sequence, it reminds me of logic puzzles and chess games of GMs. > Well, if all apparent food was edible, faking would no more made sense. > May be there has been a competition among species of cuttlefishes the one > being really not edible, and the other developing tools to look like them. > Of course cuttlefishes fakes also rock, or the predators itself. > > Cuttlefish can imitate in a second, what some jumping spider took I don't > know how many millions of year to do, like imitating perfectly a non edible > ant. Note how it uses her front legs to imitate ant's antenna! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pgs_-Lckno > This is always nice to see confirmed: that I'm not the only one who is slow sometimes... Actually, it makes me feel pretty quick. Picture a forum of cuttlefish posts, and some human mistakenly posting in it: "Do you think anybody actually changes, as a result of these posts?" and then he gets ridiculed, because cuttlefish change with every letter they type/post. But, as noted, just two years lifespan and they fall apart. All the more surprising that mating ritual is so sophisticated, and the perpetual first timers have managed to survive. Liz, you mentioned something about gout and old age? I thought this was a metabolic disorder involving excessive purine or something... So concerning their short lifespan, could you clarify please? PGC > > Bruno > > > >> >> Bruno >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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