On 02 Mar 2014, at 06:14, meekerdb wrote:
On 3/1/2014 6:43 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote:
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
] On Behalf Of meekerdb
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 1:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: If it's all math, then where does math come from?
On 3/1/2014 12:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 01 Mar 2014, at 07:04, meekerdb wrote:
On 2/28/2014 9:22 PM, LizR wrote:
Nevertheless, it does seem to be. That is, 17 is a prime number
regardless of whether anyone knows it is, or even knows what
numbers are, or indeed whether anyone is even alive (e.g. it was
prime in the first instants of the big bang - maths has been used
to work out what happened in the early universe, with observable
consequences now). There's a lot of hand waving going on to deny
this, but I haven't seen a knock down argument (or even a
suggestion of one) to indicate otherwise.
To deny what? That 17 is prime? That's a tautology. It's our
theory that the world consists of countable things - whether it
really is, is questionable.
Well, in the comp theory, there are no countable things, and non
mechanically countable things, etc. Both in the math, the physics,
the theology, etc.
>>Arithmetic doesn't include countable things, aka "numbers". I
think you're slipping into mysticism, Bruno.
Brent ~ are you saying that arithmetic is the operation (with
potential ordering & grouping) that takes numeric input and
produces numeric output? I find it hard to conceive of math without
also contemporaneously envisioning enumerable entities.
I think I could conceive of some math without enumerable entities;
for example parts of topology and real analysis don't seem to depend
on counting. But I was just expressing incredulity with Bruno's
post. He says we only need believe that "17 is prime" to use
arithmetic realism. Then he says there are no countable things in
his theory....!??
OK, I see that a misunderstanding has came from my bad english.
I was saying that there are no-countable things in the theory, not
that there are no countable things.
I was saying Ex (~(x countable)), and I was not saying that ~Ex(x
countable).
Sorry,
Bruno
Brent
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