On 10 July 2014 04:35, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > I'm not sure about physics. I think the point of the MGA is that matter > isn't primary? (As I've already mentioned, I'm not 100% au fait with the > MGA.) > > > It tries to show that by leading you to accept a scenario in which there > is no physical action but which you believe is computing consciousness (of > a dream).
That's Maudlin's argument, in which he uses a particular toy model to show that the degree of physical action needed to implement any given computation can be *trivialised* (though not in fact entirely eliminated). However the MGA, in my understanding, exploits a different tack to reach a different conclusion. It assumes a device, the systematic relation of whose physical components is accepted as implementing a computation, which in turn is assumed to correspond to some conscious state. The argument is then that, even in the case that any or all of the original "computational relations" (i.e. logic gates) is disrupted, an equivalent sequence of physical states can still be made to go through. This can be by fortuitous accident ("cosmic rays" or suchlike) or by the deliberate superimposition of a recording of a prior iteration (for this reason the argument exploits an optical computer). So the conclusion is that the same sequence of physical states and the same end product can persist even in the case that every *systematic relation* between those states, originally accepted as 'implementing a computation', has been disrupted. Hence, here it is the notion of *computation* itself, not physical action, that has been trivialised. Essentially, the nub of the argument is: "You show me a physical device that you claim produces a given effect *in virtue of its systematically implementing a computation*, and I'll show you a case in which every trace of said systematic relations can be evacuated and yet the same sequence of physical states occurs. The real point of the MGA is to make it obvious that, ex hypothesi physicalism, derived notions such as computation lack any *effective* role in the production of a given physical outcome. An example closer to home would be that the PC on which I am currently typing might have one or innumerable faults in its logic gates but those faults are in fact being fortuitously compensated by a series of accidents. In such a case I would be none the wiser because the same physical results would be produced and as far as I am concerned those results *just are* the computation. Or, even closer to home, I may unknowingly suffer disruption to certain synaptic junctions in my brain, but if these deficiencies happen fortuitously to be compensated in like manner, my consciousness would be similarly undisrupted. This latter example is actually rather plausible in that open brain experiments have shown that external stimulus of brain cells can elicit memory recall, strongly implying that "fortuitous" events do indeed elicit the same, or similar, conscious states as those produced by "normal" brain function. In short, under physicalism, a 'computation' *just is* a particular sequence of physical states. Indeed what else could it be? The states, so to speak, come first and hence the notion that those states 'implement a computation' is always an a posteriori attribution that neither need, nor can, bring anything further to the party. In this light the particularity of physical structures such as my PC, for example, is that they happen to be arrangements in which certain preferred physical outcomes normally have a greater probability of occurring relatively reliably rather than fortuitously. In terms of such outcomes the notion of "physical computation" can only be a convenient fiction which, in the final analysis can always be shown to be *effectively* redundant. And this is indeed the conclusion of my own more general "reductio of reductionism". David -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.