On 8/30/2014 8:51 PM, LizR wrote:
On 31 August 2014 13:10, meekerdb <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
On 8/30/2014 5:54 PM, LizR wrote:
On 31 August 2014 12:27, meekerdb <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 8/30/2014 4:04 PM, LizR wrote:
To be absolutely clear - the "Artificial" in AI refers to the machine
which
hosts the intelligence, not to the intelligence itself.
The problem with machines defeating "Jeopardy" players (I assume this
refers
to this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeopardy_%28TV_series%29 ?) is
that the
machines concerned almost certainly have no concepts of what the
answers were
about.
How do you have a concept of what "Who was Charlamagne?" about? Isn't
a lot of
of it verbal and relational; stuff Winston does know. Of course
Winston is
ignorant about a lot of basic things about being a person because it
doesn't
have perceptive sensors and the ability to move and manipulate things.
That's the point. Winston or whatever isn't immersed in an environment, or
its
environment only involves abstract relations. So I do have a better idea of
who
charlemagne was, even if I'd never heard of him before.
Sure, you have a better idea. But I don't think that shows that Winston has
"no
concept of what the answers are about." His concepts are limited to verbal
relations, but he probably has more of those related to Charlemagne than I
do.
So you appear to think purely abstract relations can be "about something" even when they
have no relation to experience of an environment - is that correct?
I don't think so. I think abstract relations have relations to experience and the
environment. They are abstract because they are abstracted from experience (by ignoring
some aspects).
Hence they aren't in fact "doing what humans do" (or at least not most humans do,
apart from perhaps /idiots savant/). Likewise, Deep Junior almost certainly has no
concept of what it's doing when it scores a 3-3 tie aganst Kasparov. It has no concept
of itself or its opponent, or very limited "concepts" embedded in relatively small*
data structures - and it experiences no emotions on winning or losing.
Isn't the reason you think that is because its input/output is so limited?
It
wouldn't be at all difficult to add to Deep Blue's program so that on
winning it
composed a poem of celebration and displayed fireworks on a screen - or
even set
off real fireworks - and on losing it shut down and refused to do anything
for
three days.
No, I think that because there's no evidence whatsoever that Deep Blue etc have
feelings, at least none that I've come across. I'd be happy to be proved wrong (which
would be a boost for comp, I suppose).
I'm asking what would constitute evidence for Deep Blue's having feelings?
Fireworks and sulking aren't enough?
An ongoing exhibition that it did, sustained over a period of time, and accompanied by
what appeared to be the results of mentation, etc - i.e. passing a Turing test
equivalent. Plus supporting evidence that it was conscious, and that we had reasonable
theoretical grounds to think that it was (e.g. it had had an "electronic childhood" like
HAL, etc). Just displaying a smiley face on a screen by loading in a bitmap wouldn't do
it, for me at least. Given that this would be one of the most profound discoveries (or
inventions) of all time, I'd want some pretty good evidence. Wouldn't you?
It seems you're raising the bar from "experience an emotion on winning or losing" to
"having human level consciousness". Do you suppose your dog does not experience emotion
just because he can't even come close to passing a Turing test?
Brent
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