Telmo: - funny. First I would appreciate a hint from you about mathematical realism (???) in fairly reasonable terms about where numbers come from and how they format "The World". Bruno said it is 'deeper' than waht he could explain to me. I took his word - am not an argue-boy.
Secondly: MY agnosticism is not the one 'on the books': it sais (if I pretend to know it at all) that there are things galore we DON"T know - yet even those influence the 'world' we carry. And yes, I agree with Bruno in some aspects, as it turned out over those 20some years we exchange ideas online. Sometimes I even ask questions... Thirdly: who said Napy Bony and Superman do NOT exist? in the moment when we THINK about them, they *DO* *exist* in our mentality (you do not want to say: 'soul', do you). And so is the existence of all that 'Fantasieland' I call Science. A theory EXISTS - even if it is fallse. And so do ideas. I do not draw the line between "physical" (???) and ideational existence. The little I learned in my natural sciences made me think twice about both. And please, do not ask questions about this: I am agnostic.<G> On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 5:18 PM, John Mikes <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Telmo: reasonable thinking. My wife Maria (almost as old as I am) had >> long ago her own ideas abou the "zookeeper" syndrom: we are kept here safe >> for SOME purpose *They* know, *We* don't. When we finished our >> usefulness it is out with us, as long as we are useful (unidentified) for >> THEM, we live. >> > > Maybe you've read "The Hitchicker's Guide to the Galaxy"? If not, I > suspect you'd like it. > > Lately I like to imagine the human experience as the result of a > transcendental being taking some very weird drug. I imagine the being > taking a deep breath, gaining some courage, thinking "fuck it" and > swallowing the pill. And suddenly popping out of a vagina. > > >> This is based on a MWI different from the usual scientific set of >> identicals (my narrative) in which violations of the infinite equilibrium >> (=super symmetry) of the Plenitude (to which we have NO access or even >> knowledge of) re-dissipated *timelessly* into the equilibration, YET >> observed f*rom the inside* (as in our case) as a 'physical' system - >> *ours* in space and time. We have NO access to 'other' universes (= >> violational complexities) besides our own, *THEY *(some?) may have to us >> (viz. the zookeepers?). >> > > Maybe I'm missing something, but you seem to agree a lot with what Bruno > proposes. > > >> >> >> In the spirit of such narrative we have no way to 'test' *OTHER * >> universes. >> > > I think we do, but only in the first person. And by risking death. > > >> All concerned MWI stories (of identical universes) seem 'fantasy-land' >> immagination. Mine is not 'proven to 'positive' reasoning, nor is theirs. >> > > But what is fantasy land? What is the difference in terms of reality > status between Napoleon Bonaparte and Superman? Neither exists in the > physical sense, both are ideas. > > >> >> One more thing: *Creation ex nihilo* is reasonable looking at the >> figments of our physical 'world' sciences: take the more and more primitive >> ingredients of *MATTER(?) *and you get to NO-MATTER (math?) items: a >> *NIHIL* indeed. >> > > I fluctuate between mathematical realism and math as just another idea. > What you say seems to support one or the other, depending on the mood. This > fundamental indecision makes me a fellow agnostic. > > Cheers, > Telmo. > > >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 5:29 AM, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On 26 Nov 2014, at 14:42, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>>> >>>> Nice :) >>>> >>>> One of the funny things about our sense of self-importance is that we >>>> imagine super-intelligent entities trying to destroy us, but we rarely >>>> consider the possibility that they would just have no desire to interact >>>> with us. >>>> >>>> >>>> Calvin and Hobbes did that too. Hobbes (the tiger) was listing many >>>> human stupidities, and Calvin concluded that the best proof of the higher >>>> intelligence of the aliens is that they seem to avoid earth by all means >>>> ... :) >>>> >>> >>> >>> https://poietes.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/calvin-and-hobbes-math.jpg?w=676 >>> :) >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Bruno >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 8:00 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> http://xkcd.com/1450/ >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> >>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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