On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Kim Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > On 6 Jan 2015, at 12:09 pm, LizR <[email protected]> wrote: > > Sounds a bit like sophistry. The question could be rephrased 'why/how does > anything exist?' - which is a natural continuation of the questions > scientists have been asking for a while. If you aren't interested in why > and how things work, then don't bother to do science. > > "Why is there something rather than nothing?" was just one person's choice > of phrase. I wouldn't read too much meaning into his choice of words. > > > Just my opinions, so take with a grain of salt, but if you have any questions about how I arrived at these conclusions, I'd be happy to share. > > I submit the following as possible equivalent expressions: > > Why is there something rather than nothing (given that nothing would be a > whole lot easier) > >From information theory, it's true that nothing takes less information to describe/specify than something. Surprisingly, however, it takes less information to specify everything than it does to specify something or nothing. Consider your inbox before you receive a message. The space of all possibilities remains open until you add that information, having 0 bits of information leaves open all possibilities. While receiving a "blank" e-mail containing no information requires some information. The uncarved block of marble contains all possible statues, until information is imparted via the sculptor's chisels. > > Why do I believe there is something (would I recognise nothing if I ran > into it) > > Certain propositions in mathematics are true. There are simple ones like 2 + 2 = 4, then there are more complex ones, like the 10th Fibonacci number is 34. Then there are even more complex ones, like the 151st step of program Y that computes the Fibonacci number is state X. Then you go further, and say "the Nth step of the program J (which happens to be equivalent to the program that your brain is executing in this moment) believes it is a conscious person living on a planet called Earth" and this is a true statement in mathematics. So ultimately your belief in something has the same justification that 2+2=4 has: it can't be any other way. > If I believe there is 'nothing' yet still encounter something, was I wrong > > Would this be evidence of the co-existence of nothing and something? > Among all possible universes, perhaps one of them is empty. We can conceive of this universe, just as we can conceive of other universes, but the existence of "nothing over there" doesn't affect the "something over here". No more than 0 affects 1. > Dark matter seems to do a good job of being nothing and something at the > same time > > Leads to all the classic kids' questions: > > Why am I here > In all conscious experiences you index yourself to "here" and "now", but other conscious experiences are no less correct in their belief that "here" and "now" (different from yours) are valid to them. Just as New York is "here" for New Yorkers, and Chicago is here for Chicagoans. > > Why do I believe I am here > All thoughts exist in mathematical truth, including the one where you believe you are here. > > Why am I me and not someone else > What evidence do you have that you aren't those other selves to? I believe all thoughts are equally yours. > > Who or what am I > The universal soul to which all experiences belong. > > What is the meaning of life (you may perhaps substitute 'consciousness' > here) > If by meaning you mean purpose, I'd say different individuals can have different purposes that are important to them. Perhaps the goal for non-Godlike consciousness is to approach/reach Godlike consciousness, and perhaps the goal for God-like consciousnesses is to temporarily forget their true identity. > > What is the purpose of life (ditto) > > What did toy mean by meaning if not purpose? > Why does anything make sense > If things were not ordered/well-behaved/comprehendable then life wouldn't be able to evolve (there would be no order or patterns for it to learn to harness and take advantage of), and there would also be no need for brains (since there would be nothing to make sense of). Therefore most conscious beings find themselves in ordered worlds. > > Does anything make sense > > I think so. > Why do I think things make sense etc... > > That's part of who you are. > Why do conscious creatures need to know these things? > > I don't know that we need to, but we're naturally curious, and that curiosity includes to knowing our surroundings, where we came from and where we're going. These questions aren't really any different. Jason > Kim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6 January 2015 at 13:43, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* meekerdb <[email protected]> >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Sent:* Monday, January 5, 2015 4:34 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum >> theory to dialectics? >> >> On 1/5/2015 3:50 PM, LizR wrote: >> >> Eternal inflation seems to assume there is something because "there has >> always been something". However if so, it sidesteps the underlying issue - >> why is there this (eternal) something? The question itself - and any >> attempted answer - can't be answered causally. >> >> >> "Sidesteps"? or shows it's an invented issue. If there were nothing >> would the issue be why isn't there something? Why should *nothing* be >> unquestionably accepted as the default that needs no explanation? >> >> Nice question. >> No easy answer jumps out as being the obvious answer either. Why the >> human mind seems to come up with this assumption over and over again across >> various cultures and periods of history. Why do you think humans seem to >> accept this by and large as the default base state of everything. Could it >> be an artifact of the way our minds work? >> The idea of nothing as the default base state of the universe -- before >> God (or Nature) created everything - seems quite widespread. >> -Chris >> >> Brent >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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