On 1/5/2015 11:24 AM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
*From:*[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On
Behalf Of *meekerdb
*Sent:* Monday, January 05, 2015 10:55 AM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to
dialectics?
On 1/5/2015 1:07 AM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
0={0} and then onward to: 0={0}= {0}+{0} = {{0}, {0}+{0}} etc.
There's your problem: "etc"
Not trying to go all the way – really trying to chase down some hypothetical candidate
for prime mover. What could have kicked it off – from a hypothesized nothing that was
before time and anything else. Assuming, for the sake of discussion that there was a
theory of everything, out of nothing, then what do you think the very first prime agent
or entity might be that could get everything going from nothing at all… from the nothing
that encompasses everything?
All that assumes that nothing is some natural prior state from which everything arose. I
think that's a myth left over from creator god myths. Cosmologically a better model may
be eternal inflation.
Is it because you feel that pure mathematical structures are an insufficient foundation
for reality? This is a commonly held view by many physicists (very likely the majority)
I think mathematics and logic are inventions of human language. They may be necessary in
the sense that any intelligent race would invent the same thing - but they might not.
Consider the discussions of the foundations of mathematics, such as this one I just ran
across:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwBB5W78Z2I3ZkFNVDhmOXpHQVk/view?pli=1
I see two problems with taking mathematics as fundamental. First, "mathematics" isn't a
single thing. There are different "mathematics" which are contradictory; so effectively
you have to chose one and say "This is the mathematics that really exists." (Bruno choses
arithmetic or its equivalence). But this raises the same kind of question about what
"exist" means as raised by saying matter exists. Second, the axiomatic nature of
mathematics means that you can only get out of it what is already implicit in the axioms
and the rules of inference. Choose different axioms and you get different theories.
Or is it because you don’t think that sets plus simple summation, negation and
equivalence operations along with the property of perspective is sufficient.
In some sense it must be "sufficient" since it is an infinite structure and it must be
capable of modeling all possible human experience (which is finite). But that's a trivial
sense of "sufficient". It's like the everything that equals nothing, i.e. no
information. That's why I emphasize that the test of a good theory isn't explanation,
it's prediction.
Brent
Can the concept of a countable series arise out from sets or do numbers at least the
first number one and then all others derived through the application of summation to
create a new number entity (e.g. the sum of the inputs) each time.
Not professing that I know any answers… but I must admit I find this to be a fascinating
problem.
-Chris
Brent
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