On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Kim Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > On 20 Jan 2015, at 11:43 pm, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > These models tend to have something in common: they suggest that we are > not what we appear to be, that we are not mortal or immortal because time > itself is a dream. That there is only one consciousness and we are all > fundamentally the same entity, from the amoeba on. Quantum immortality. > This sort of thing. They start with consciousness as the brute fact, as you > posit. > > > > I have no intellectual reason to reject such ideas, but I definitely > feel a resistance to them. > > > Do you equally feel a resistance to the mainstream, standard, canonical, > textbook, safe, establishment versions of reality? I only ask because it > appears there are definitely good intellectual reasons to stand up and > challenge some of those. > Sure, I feel intellectual resistance. I would say that this is even unavoidable if you like to learn. The mainstream models within theoretical physics already contradict the naive materialism which I think currently dominates. Most people are still very surprised when confronted with the double-slit experiment. However, I meant a more visceral resistance that feels more like an instinct. An instinct that wants me to strongly identify with my physical body. Don't you have that? > > > > > > So it also occurred to me that believing in such things appears > maladaptive. Intuitively, such beliefs may lead you to be less preoccupied > with survival and reproduction. > > That is a thought that has crossed my mind, too. People who sit around > pulling bongs and studying shadows on cave walls tend not to go on and have > business empires, large families and lots of possessions and become > captains of industry, no. Survival and reproduction is indeed the name of > the game. I also note that we are currently surviving and reproducing > ourselves straight to oblivion and catastrophe so, Houston - we have a > problem. > This makes sense with the "great filter" idea and the apparent radio silence around us. But I'm still an optimist: maybe more advanced civilisations move inside simulations. (I feel the above resistance as I write this, although I do believe it intellectually) > > > > So it's not so surprising that we evolved to reject such ideas but this > leads to a terrible doubt: can we trust ourselves to do science? > > While the exact and human sciences remain at loggerheads I would say no. > Science is forever a blunt instrument because it wants to say there are > places where science cannot go. So, the Aristotelian universe seems to run > out of steam at a certain point and leaves the important stuff about the > human soul to madmen, criminals, charlatans and the merely credulous. > Here I would make some distinctions. I think theoretical physics and theoretical biology are on solid ground, although they might miss a "big-picture" framing, for the reasons you cite. Empirical sciences, especially the ones lacking rigorous theory are starting to show a lot of cracks. I think this is being exacerbated by the age of "big data", that is making it painfully obvious that using p-values without taking into account the number of failed experiments and without pre-existing theoretical grounding leads to a lot of junk science. Telmo > > K > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
