On 22 Jan 2015, at 22:17, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/22/2015 1:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 21 Jan 2015, at 04:53, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/20/2015 5:54 PM, Rex Allen wrote:
Hi Telmo,
Is there a better starting point than consciousness?
My main thought was to suggest that the theory of evolution,
taken to it's logical conclusion, supports a Kantian division of
reality into phenomenal and noumenal realms.
We are entities whose consciousnesses are shaped only with an eye
towards what promotes survival and reproduction. Consciousness
isn't the least concerned with truth - only with usefulness.
Maybe this explains many of the conundrums that are pondered in
this group.
If you completely discard the concept of "truth" and replace it
entirely with "evolutionary usefulness" - does that change
anything?
That's essentially the thesis of William S. Cooper's book "The
Origin of Reason" - that our language, logic and mathematics were
driven by evolution. And he suggests how it may go further.
Whether you agree with him or not, it's a thought provoking book
(and not a long one).
Define "evolutionary usefulness" without using the notion of truth.
I doubt that this is possible. You need the truth of the existence
of organism, survival, etc.
That's because you identify true and real.
Not at all. Real is defined by what exists, and something exists when
it is true that something exists (in some model, or conception of
reality).
The only advantage of the evolution theory is that it needs noting
more than arithmetical truth.
It needs copying with variation.
Which is generously provided by the (sigma_1) truth.
It is a mechanist theory.\
Indeed, that's why it has explanatory and predictive power.
Yes. Diderot defined rationalism by mechanism. Those are indeed
related, although today we know form of rationalism which are non-
mechanist, like with oracles, or infinite machines. Of course we have
no evidences for them in nature, but they are not contradictory. They
just seem non necessary, the FPI seems to provide the infinities we
need in computationalism (that is what we can test, and the first test
confirms this, through the many-worlds aspect of reality and its
quantum logic).
Then computationalism shows that this explanation by evolution must
be extended to the appearance of matter from a sort of genetical
evolution of machine dreams.
What does it mean to say an explanation "must be extended"? It
seems to say in order to save my theory...?
Yes. To keep computationalism (by the UDA) and to avoid magical
thinking, like Darwin proposed a better explanation of the development
of species (better than a white male doing all the job in six days).
Bruno
Brent
It looks like this progress is today as much problematical than
Darwin was at the beginning.
Bruno
Brent
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to everything-
[email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
