Bruno concluded: *Only if you define free-will by random, but frankly, it seems that random is the complete opposite of free-will. If you choose randomly, it means you abandon your will to chance. It means you let chance doing the decision at your place.*
*Imagine that I give you the liberty to go either in Hell or in Paradise, with your own free will. Then, as you tell me that free will = random, I can throw the coin for you, and ... Hell. Would say that in that case you are going to hell by your own free will?* *I think free will require determinacy, at least some amount so as being able to do some planning. * IMO neither 'free will', nor 'random' make comon sense. Both (and CHAOS as well) are deterministic products of infinite many factors beyond our mental limits - and control. I tried to address such views to Russell, but he rejected my post as 'not having followed my "rabbitting" at all'. I wonder why 'decision making' would preferred to be called FREE will? In the world of infinite complexities in more-or-less unfollowable relations the determining factor of the composite 'pressure' to influence our decision is indeed a composite of Everything affecting our flexible 'mind' into some WILL. About 'random'? I asked many times what ruling exempts the arithmetical 2 + 2 = 4 from a randomity when in Nature ANYTHING(?) can go random? How come we observe physical laws exempt from random occurrences? What happened to CHAOS when enlightenment disclosed some origins and procedures explaining 'chaotic' unknowables of the past? Regards John Mikes On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 14 May 2015, at 03:20, LizR wrote: > > On 14 May 2015 at 12:01, Russell Standish <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 01:46:49PM -0400, John Clark wrote: >> > On Tue, May 12, 2015 Russell Standish <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > Free will is the ability to do something stupid. Nonrational. >> > > >> > >> > OK fine free will is non-rational, in other words an event performed >> for NO >> > REASON, in other words an event without a cause, in other words random. >> So >> > a radioactive atom has free will when it decays. >> >> A radioactive atom isn't a person, consequently does not have >> will. At least not when I last checked. >> > > But a person choosing what to do as a result of an atom decaying does have > free will, I assume? > > > Only if you define free-will by random, but frankly, it seems that random > is the complete opposite of free-will. If you choose randomly, it means you > abandon your will to chance. It means you let chance doing the decision at > your place. > > Imagine that I give you the liberty to go either in Hell or in Paradise, > with your own free will. Then, as you tell me that free will = random, I > can throw the coin for you, and ... Hell. Would say that in that case you > are going to hell by your own free will? > > I think free will require determinacy, at least some amount so as being > able to do some planning. > > > > > > (Perhaps the atom was inside their brain, and its decay just happened to > tip the balance of brain chemicals enough that the final decision was in > favour of tea rather than coffee... or perhaps the person decided to decide > which drink to have on the basis of a reading from a Geiger counter... > either way, in this particular case human FW puts them in a bit of a > Schroedinger's cat siutation...) > > > Which in my opinion illustrate well that both self-duplication and > self-superposition have no role in free -will. > > Bruno > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
