On 14 May 2015, at 23:16, John Mikes wrote:
Bruno concluded:
Only if you define free-will by random, but frankly, it seems that
random is the complete opposite of free-will. If you choose
randomly, it means you abandon your will to chance. It means you let
chance doing the decision at your place.
Imagine that I give you the liberty to go either in Hell or in
Paradise, with your own free will. Then, as you tell me that free
will = random, I can throw the coin for you, and ... Hell. Would say
that in that case you are going to hell by your own free will?
I think free will require determinacy, at least some amount so as
being able to do some planning.
IMO neither 'free will', nor 'random' make comon sense. Both (and
CHAOS as well) are deterministic products of infinite many factors
beyond our mental limits - and control. I tried to address such
views to Russell, but he rejected my post as 'not having followed my
"rabbitting" at all'.
I wonder why 'decision making' would preferred to be called FREE will?
Yes, "will" is a better term.
Free-will is will in the situation that you are not in jail, or stuck
in a lift.
In the world of infinite complexities in more-or-less unfollowable
relations the determining factor of the composite 'pressure' to
influence our decision is indeed a composite of Everything affecting
our flexible 'mind' into some WILL.
About 'random'? I asked many times what ruling exempts the
arithmetical
2 + 2 = 4 from a randomity when in Nature ANYTHING(?) can go random?
Because 2+2=4 is independent of nature. It does not assume nature. On
the SK-planet, they learn the numbers as curiousity, and some take
pleasure in proving 2+2=4 from Kxy = x and Sxyz = xz(yz), with
reasonable definitions.
How come we observe physical laws exempt from random occurrences?
That is the question that the hypothesis of computationalism can make
precise.
What happened to CHAOS when enlightenment disclosed some origins and
procedures explaining 'chaotic' unknowables of the past?
All good questions!
Best,
Bruno
On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 14 May 2015, at 03:20, LizR wrote:
On 14 May 2015 at 12:01, Russell Standish <[email protected]>
wrote:
On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 01:46:49PM -0400, John Clark wrote:
> On Tue, May 12, 2015 Russell Standish <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> > Free will is the ability to do something stupid. Nonrational.
> >
>
> OK fine free will is non-rational, in other words an event
performed for NO
> REASON, in other words an event without a cause, in other words
random. So
> a radioactive atom has free will when it decays.
A radioactive atom isn't a person, consequently does not have
will. At least not when I last checked.
But a person choosing what to do as a result of an atom decaying
does have free will, I assume?
Only if you define free-will by random, but frankly, it seems that
random is the complete opposite of free-will. If you choose
randomly, it means you abandon your will to chance. It means you let
chance doing the decision at your place.
Imagine that I give you the liberty to go either in Hell or in
Paradise, with your own free will. Then, as you tell me that free
will = random, I can throw the coin for you, and ... Hell. Would say
that in that case you are going to hell by your own free will?
I think free will require determinacy, at least some amount so as
being able to do some planning.
(Perhaps the atom was inside their brain, and its decay just
happened to tip the balance of brain chemicals enough that the
final decision was in favour of tea rather than coffee... or
perhaps the person decided to decide which drink to have on the
basis of a reading from a Geiger counter... either way, in this
particular case human FW puts them in a bit of a Schroedinger's cat
siutation...)
Which in my opinion illustrate well that both self-duplication and
self-superposition have no role in free -will.
Bruno
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to everything-
[email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
