On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 8:01 PM, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au> wrote:
> >> Both Og and the daemon are deterministic but even if we ignore >> chaos deterministic is not the same as predictable. A very simple program >> can be written to look for the first even number greater than 2 that is not >> the sum of 2 primes and then stop, the program is 100% deterministic but >> nobody has been able to predict if it will ever stop or not, and even worse >> Turing tells us that there is a chance nobody will even ever be able to >> predict that someday somebody will be able to predict if it will stop or >> not. > > > > > Are you arguing that Laplace's daemon is impossible? > Yes. Laplace didn't know that calculation takes energy and produces entropy, and he thought deterministic was the same as predictable and it isn't. How on earth do you expect the poor daemon to know if a program to find the first even integer greater than 2 that is not the sum of two prime numbers and then stop will ever stop if Goldbach is true but has no proof?? > >> That is incorrect it matters a great deal. The daemon must keep > his prediction of Og's behavior secret from Og or lie about what he > really thinks Og will do. If Og is DETERMINED to do the opposite of > whatever the daemon predicts he will do and Og is told what the prediction > is then the daemon's prediction will never be correct. > > > What does DETERMINED mean here? Deterministic clockwork. > Sounds an awful lot like Og's free will. > Tell me what "free will" means and I'll tell you if that sounds like it. > If no daemon can predict what Og will do in this deterministic system > [...] > Forget Og, no daemon can predict what light a simple electronic box will turn on if it's rigged to turn on red if the daemon says green and turn on green if the daemon says red. The daemon must keep his prediction secret. > I don't believe free will is possible in a deterministic universe. > Tell me what "free will" means and I'll tell you if I agree or not. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
