On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 3:02 AM, Peter Sas <[email protected]> wrote:
> I thought Tipler's theory is that there will be an actual physical > computer that will be able to do all possible computations as the Universe > collapses - although since he came up with the idea it has been shown that > the Universe won't collapse in the required way. > > Yes, it's not Tipler's main theory, which is the one about > 'resurrection"... But he also suggested this idea: that the platonic > existence of mathematics might be enough for the simulation of physical > universes with consciousness in them... > > Why is the Hard Problem of Consciousness a problem in the computerless >> computation scenario? >> > > Yes, this is an unfortunate formulation on my part. The hard problem is of > course a problem for all computational approaches.... Personally I take the > hard problem very seriously. I think it shows that consciousness cannot be > fully understood in computational terms: the what-it's-likeness of > consciousness, its involving qualia, cannnot be accounted for > computationally. I think this may give us a 5th option: > > (5) Consciousness, being inexplicable in computational terms, can be the > hardware that ontologically precedes the computations that ourput the > physical universe. How might this work? Here I would like to invoke an idea > from the American idealist philosopher Josiah Royce, who argued for the > infinite complexity of complete self-awareness. To be self-aware is to be > aware that one is self-aware, and aware that one is aware of one's > self-awareness... and son on. > Personally my brain stack overflows at about 3 or 4 levels of being aware that I am aware that ... I am aware. I think it would require infinite memory to truly be aware of an infinite number of steps in such a recursive relation. What about when a being is not contemplating its self-awareness and merely living in the moment? Is it not conscious at those times? Jason > So, as Royce pointed out, there is a recursivity to self-awareness that > mirrors the recursion that generates the natural number system. Similar > ideas were brought forward by the German philosopher/mathematican Oskar > Becker. Anyway, what this suggests is that if we postulate a primordial > self-awareness as the foundation of all reality, then that self-awareness > through its recursivity could be said to be aware of all natural numbers > (the hierarchy of its reflective levels) and thus also of all relations > between them, i.e. all computable functions. And since it is basically a > self-awareness it singles out those algorithms for 'special attention' that > best mirror its self-awareness by forming universes with conscious beings > in them. Of course, the question remains why one should postulate the > existence of such an absolute self-awareness as the basis of all existence. > My guess is that such a self-awareness can bootstrap itself into existence: > if esse est percipi, then the ultimate observer only exists because it > observes itself. It has often been remarked that there is a circularity in > self-awareness. In my view this circularity is what makes it causa sui. > Royce's story then allows us to conceive of this absolute self-awareness as > a computer... The idea that an absolute self-grounding self-awareness > underlies existence can by the way be found in Plotinus, the Indian vedanta > and German idealism (Fichte, Schelling, Hegel). Royce allows us to take > this idealism into a computational direction. It is something I am working > on... > > Peter > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
