On 13 Jun 2016, at 03:48, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
> We need matter to get physical brain and physical computer,
and the same for human and man-made machine consciousness.
That's all I'm saying, for computation or intelligence or
consciousnesses matter is required.
But that is false, just plainly false.
What I said was that for actual physical computation we need matter.
But computation, intelligence and consciousness does not require the
*assumption* of matter. All universal numbers will believe in matter,
without assuming matter, as matter is how arithmetic look when seen
from inside by sound self-referential machines (and actually from a
large class of arithmetical non-machine entities too).
> But that matter is shown to be only [...]
Who cares what it "only"is? Molecules are "only" atoms but for
life molecules are required.
Locally, yes, for the type of life as it has incarnated itself on this
planet. But life and consciousness requires only some number relation,
and atoms and molecules are stable convenient fictions to avoid doing
infinities of computations to remain conscious. Sort of macro, in some
way.
Keep in mind of the goal of this list, which is the search of a
fundamental theory explaining coherently matter, mind and its relation.
Again, just to understand the problem, you need to go a bit deeper
than step 2.
Bruno
John K Clark
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