On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> I'll tell you what I'm sick of, I'm not sick of arguing with you, that's >> >> fun, but I'm sick of Bruno's acting as if his silly homemade acronyms >> should >> >> be well known to every educated person when even Google doesn't know what >> >> the hell he's talking about. > > > > > I think this gets to the root of the problem, and it's all in your > > head.
Yes, I find that if it's not in my head it's not worth saying. > > > You pride yourself in your scientific culture Yes > > > so you feel > > personally insulted when someone uses some obscure acronym that you > > don't know about. That is irrational. > It's not irrational if the acronym in question is obscure because the person just made it up and when there is already a short word that every English speaker in the world knows that means exactly the same thing. And yes, when somebody uses pompous language instead of logic I feel insulted > > People have been discussing Bruno's Universal Dovetailer Argument for > > many years on this mailing list. And nowhere else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uda By now I know what a Universal Dovetailer is but I still don't know what "UDA" means because the "A" in it is not clear, I've never found any coherent "argument" in UDA. > > This is not an exercise in > > self-importance I think it is. Nobody would say "3p" instead of "your" unless they wanted to sound deeper and more profound than they really are. And although I can figure out what "*A *1p view" means I have no idea what "*THE* 1p view" means, and that's the one Bruno talks about. > > > it's just how acronyms are born anywhere. Those acronyms are still in the womb and will never be born. > > > Bruno's > > argument has not reached the mainstream, And why do you suppose that is? > > > so it's fairly normal that > > wikipedia does contain an entry about it. Not only does Google not know what "UDA" is neither does Bing. They don't know what "1p" is either , or "3p, much less "1-1p". > > The Universal Dovetailer is a perfectly well defined (and quite > > interesting) concept in computer science. > > I do think this one is > > mentioned in wikipedia, by the way. No, Wikipedia doesn't know what a "Universal Dovetailer" is either . B ut I have no problem with the fact that one type of P HYSICAL computer can always simulate another type of computer or that a PHYSICAL computer if properly programmed and if given sufficient energy and time . and could compute everything that is c omputable and thus be able simulate reality, but Turing figured that out 85 years ago. I also have no problem with something that can compute intelligent behavior will also be conscious, Darwin proved that (or at least provided an astronomical amount of evidence in favor of it) over 150 years ago. So what's new thing does Bruno's " Universal Dovetailer " bring to the table? Mathematics can't tell us what is, it can't tell us the truth or even the approximate truth, mathematics can only tell us what will result from certain assumptions. Physics can't tell us the truth either but at least it can come close. > > You can check the definition of "Bad Faith" on Wikipedia: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith But you can't check Universal Dovetailer or UDA or 1p or 3p or 1-1p or 3-1p on Wikipedia. And speaking of bad faith, do you think Bruno *really* believes I'm a dogmatic catholic theologian who is even more hidebound than the Pope, or do you think maybe he was being just a tad duplicitous ? > > > It is bullying if you even refuse to read what you propose to > > criticize, Proofs are built on foundation of the previous steps so only a fool would keep reading a proof after a error was found, and I am not a fool. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
