On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 7:39 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>> >> Well... at least atheists have some notation in mind when they use the >> word >> >> [God] >> . >> > > > > But why chosing the notion from a theory they claim to disbelieve. > Because the meaning Christians and Jews and Muslims give to the word "God" is clear and if I had a switch that could make their God appear or disappear the universe would look very different depending on if that switch was on or off. Your God does nothing beyond the laws of physics so it would make no difference if He existed or not. >> >> It may not exist but at least "an immortal person with supernatural power >> who wants and deserves to be worshiped" means something. >> >> > > > > Really? > Yes really. "An immortal person exists with supernatural power who wants and deserves to be worshiped " means something , so the statement has the virtue of being either right or wrong. In this case wrong. But when you say "God" it means nothing so it's rather like a burp, it's just a noise and is neither right nor wrong. >> >> >> Theists, at least most of those on this list, quite literally don't know >> what they're talking about when they talk about "God". >> >> > > > > We use the greek notion. > I'm begging you, please please please stop talking about the idiot ancient Greeks! > > >>> >> >>> >>> god is just the big things at the origin of everything. >> >> >> >> >> And if that turns out to be the quantum vacuum are you prepared to call >> that God? Of course you're not! > > > > > ? > *!* ** > >> >> >> And you can protest all you want but it's obvious you want something that >> is conscious and intelligent and purposeful, not something as mindless as a >> sack full of doorknobs. > > > > > ? > *!* > > I have made it clear in posts and papers that the God of the machine is > Arithmetical Truth. > The set of all false arithmetical statements has as much (or as little) existence as the set of all true arithmetical statements; without physics and the computations it allows how can even God tell one from the other? And the correct multiplication table can't think any better than an incorrect multiplication table . And a God that can't think is a pretty low rent God. >> >> And speaking of a >> >> sack full of doorknobs, how can one tell the difference between a serious >> theologian and a buffoon theologian? >> > > > > The first one personified God metaphorically. > > The second one take such personification literally. > So God has a metaphorical mind with metaphorical intelligence and metaphorical consciousness who does metaphorical things and has a metaphorical existence. So God is every bit as real as Batman is. When seeking an answer to a philosophical question you'd do just as well to ask the opinion of an expert on Batman comics as you would to ask the opinion of an expert on God. >> >> I am going to ask a hypothetical question to try to get a better >> understanding of what you're saying. Suppose for the sake of argument >> you're wrong and that invisible fuzzy mindless blob did not exist; how >> would the universe be one bit different? What could "God" bring to the >> table that something that wasn't a invisible fuzzy mindless blob could not? > > > > > God exist by definition. > You can create any definition you like and when you do so the definition exists, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the thing or concept that is being defined exists. I can define "flobknee" as "the integer that is equal to 2+3 but is not equal to 5", the definition exists but the integer does not. But my question was not about definitions. I want to know how the universe would be different if , an invisible amoral fuzzy mindless blob that does nothing to violate the laws of physics and does not hear our prayers and is indifferent to our fate, did not exist. So what is your answer, how would things be different? > > > if God did not exist, we would not have this conversation. > I asked this question before but you did not answer it, If physics someday proved that the quantum vacuum was responsible for existence would you be prepared to call a vacuum God? I very much doubt it. God must be able to think or the word becomes a joke. John K Clark > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
