On 11/07/2017 2:12 pm, Russell Standish wrote:
On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 10:29:26PM +1000, Bruce Kellett wrote:
I don't think it is that simple. If we have substrate independence,
the machine (the conscious person) cannot tell what substrate is
supporting the computations, whether arithmetic, a quantum world, or
a classical Newtonian world. That would seem to imply that mere
consideration of conscious observer moments cannot distinguish
between these. Or else you feel the full force of the conundrum
enunciated above: if observer moments imply a quantum reality, then
the machine can indeed determine its substrate, and substrate
independence is lost.
You're still missing the point. The quantum reality is a 1p thing, it
is the observed phenomenal physics. Substrate independence is a 3p
thing, and may be quantum, classical or whatever, just needing to
support universal computation.
Well, in the Everettian picture, the quantum reality is the whole
structure, multiverse or whatever. The 0p/3p picture of splitting into
separate worlds according to the unitary evolution of the wave function
is the quantum reality. The 1p view of this is just a projection from
the whole according to self-selection. If the universe were classical,
Turing machines could still exist and support the computations
underlying consciousness, but there would be no splitting into many
worlds. So if consciousness implies quantum mechanics, then we are able
to determine the substrate -- if quantum, the substrate cannot be purely
Newtonian, and the computations are not supported by a classical Turing
machine. I don't think the 1p-1pp-3p distinctions are helpful here, they
obscure what is actually going on.
Bruce
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