On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 4:50:01 PM UTC, [email protected] wrote: > > > > On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 4:59:38 AM UTC, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:09:23 PM UTC, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:28 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>> >>>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 6:17:30 AM UTC-5, [email protected] >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:46:37 AM UTC, [email protected] wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 6:09:10 PM UTC, [email protected] >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 12:59:00 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 9:35:18 PM UTC-5, [email protected] >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 4:04:55 PM UTC, [email protected] >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 2:45:40 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 5, 2018 at 3:20:39 PM UTC-5, >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Assuming that QM is a non-local theory, if two systems become >>>>>>>>>>>> entangled, say via a measurement, do they necessary have a >>>>>>>>>>>> non-local >>>>>>>>>>>> connection? That is, does entanglement necessarily imply >>>>>>>>>>>> non-locality? AG >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Entanglement is a form of nonlocality. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> LC >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> OK, that's what I thought, but consider this. It's clear that >>>>>>>>>> information can't be transmitted due to entanglement or non >>>>>>>>>> locality. But >>>>>>>>>> aren't we entangled with the external world, yet receive information >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> it? TIA, AG >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Or look at it this way; if I am NOT entangled with the photons >>>>>>>>> coming my way allowing me to SEE the world, and NOT entangled with >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> various pressure waves that enable me to hear and feel the world, >>>>>>>>> what I am >>>>>>>>> entangled with? TIA, AG >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The classical or macroscopic world is in part at least related to >>>>>>>> how quantum states are entangled at different times with other states >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the environment. This though is not a level of description that can >>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>> you much about these specific interactions. The quantum world is in >>>>>>>> effect >>>>>>>> in a sort of random Zeno machine that continually reduces wave >>>>>>>> functions, >>>>>>>> and in effect it can be argued it does this to itself. Quantum phases >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> being continually mixed and re-entangled so as to generate a sort of >>>>>>>> quantum phase chaos. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> LC >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *This sounds reasonable, but when I try to apply I run into big >>>>>>> trouble. Suppose there's a free Nitrogen molecule coming my way, and >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> it strikes me I experience a breeze. Am I ever entangled with it prior >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> impact? IIUC, its wf spreads with time. Same for an assumed wave >>>>>>> packet. >>>>>>> Not sure which wf is appropriate to apply, That aside, but whichever, >>>>>>> that's an initial form which spreads and it is most concentrated when >>>>>>> initially observed. But where is the observer to set the initial >>>>>>> condition? >>>>>>> TIA, AG* >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *The general question is this; how does one get an entangled system >>>>>> from two UN-entangled systems, each with its own WF? TIA, AG * >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *I just don't see how we gets *spontaneous* entangled states from >>>>> unentangled states. In the free Nitrogen molecule case described above, >>>>> we >>>>> don't seem to even have a well defined WF of a free Nitrogen molecule to >>>>> use, to get entangled with any other system. This goes to the heart of >>>>> decoherence theory. It might be a lot of handwaving BS without substance. >>>>> TIA, AG* >>>>> >>>> >>>> Entanglement of quantum states occur through an interaction of these >>>> states. Similarly decoherence occurs through an interactions. The quantum >>>> phase of an entanglement or superposition is transferred through >>>> interactions. To try to understand this requires some pretty serious work. >>>> Entanglements are described by quotient spaces of groups, symmetric spaces >>>> and are related to the universal bundle problem in differential geometry. >>>> These spaces are related to the symmetries of interactions. >>>> >>>> LC >>>> >>> >>> *OK, but in the case of the free Nitrogen molecule, can you define the >>> quantum state unambiguously in order to begin to think of how entanglement >>> might occur with its environment? If the state is undefined, all which >>> follows, fails. AG* >>> >> >> *Let's simplify the model. Instead of a Nitrogen molecule, consider a >> free electron at rest in some frame. Its only degree of freedom is spin >> IIUC. Is it your claim that this electron become entangled with its >> environment via its spin WF, which is a superposition of UP and DN? Does >> this spin WF participate in the entanglement? TIA, AG* >> > > *This seems like a simple Yes/No question. Am I missing something? AG * >
*If this simple Yes/No question can't be answered, it seems to argue that entanglement with the environment is an illusion. AG * -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
