On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 4:50:01 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 4:59:38 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 1:09:23 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 12:05:28 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>>> >>>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 6:17:30 AM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:46:37 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 6:09:10 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, April 7, 2018 at 12:59:00 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 9:35:18 PM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 4:04:55 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 2:45:40 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, April 5, 2018 at 3:20:39 PM UTC-5, >>>>>>>>>>> agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Assuming that QM is a non-local theory, if two systems become >>>>>>>>>>>> entangled, say via a measurement, do they necessary have a >>>>>>>>>>>> non-local >>>>>>>>>>>> connection? That is, does entanglement necessarily imply >>>>>>>>>>>> non-locality? AG >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Entanglement is a form of nonlocality. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> LC >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> OK, that's what I thought, but consider this. It's clear that >>>>>>>>>> information can't be transmitted due to entanglement or non >>>>>>>>>> locality. But >>>>>>>>>> aren't we entangled with the external world, yet receive information >>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>> it? TIA, AG >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Or look at it this way; if I am NOT entangled with the photons >>>>>>>>> coming my way allowing me to SEE the world, and NOT entangled with >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> various pressure waves that enable me to hear and feel the world, >>>>>>>>> what I am >>>>>>>>> entangled with? TIA, AG >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The classical or macroscopic world is in part at least related to >>>>>>>> how quantum states are entangled at different times with other states >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> the environment. This though is not a level of description that can >>>>>>>> tell >>>>>>>> you much about these specific interactions. The quantum world is in >>>>>>>> effect >>>>>>>> in a sort of random Zeno machine that continually reduces wave >>>>>>>> functions, >>>>>>>> and in effect it can be argued it does this to itself. Quantum phases >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> being continually mixed and re-entangled so as to generate a sort of >>>>>>>> quantum phase chaos. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> LC >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *This sounds reasonable, but when I try to apply I run into big >>>>>>> trouble. Suppose there's a free Nitrogen molecule coming my way, and >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> it strikes me I experience a breeze. Am I ever entangled with it prior >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> impact? IIUC, its wf spreads with time. Same for an assumed wave >>>>>>> packet. >>>>>>> Not sure which wf is appropriate to apply, That aside, but whichever, >>>>>>> that's an initial form which spreads and it is most concentrated when >>>>>>> initially observed. But where is the observer to set the initial >>>>>>> condition? >>>>>>> TIA, AG* >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *The general question is this; how does one get an entangled system >>>>>> from two UN-entangled systems, each with its own WF? TIA, AG * >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *I just don't see how we gets *spontaneous* entangled states from >>>>> unentangled states. In the free Nitrogen molecule case described above, >>>>> we >>>>> don't seem to even have a well defined WF of a free Nitrogen molecule to >>>>> use, to get entangled with any other system. This goes to the heart of >>>>> decoherence theory. It might be a lot of handwaving BS without substance. >>>>> TIA, AG* >>>>> >>>> >>>> Entanglement of quantum states occur through an interaction of these >>>> states. Similarly decoherence occurs through an interactions. The quantum >>>> phase of an entanglement or superposition is transferred through >>>> interactions. To try to understand this requires some pretty serious work. >>>> Entanglements are described by quotient spaces of groups, symmetric spaces >>>> and are related to the universal bundle problem in differential geometry. >>>> These spaces are related to the symmetries of interactions. >>>> >>>> LC >>>> >>> >>> *OK, but in the case of the free Nitrogen molecule, can you define the >>> quantum state unambiguously in order to begin to think of how entanglement >>> might occur with its environment? If the state is undefined, all which >>> follows, fails. AG* >>> >> >> *Let's simplify the model. Instead of a Nitrogen molecule, consider a >> free electron at rest in some frame. Its only degree of freedom is spin >> IIUC. Is it your claim that this electron become entangled with its >> environment via its spin WF, which is a superposition of UP and DN? Does >> this spin WF participate in the entanglement? TIA, AG* >> > > *This seems like a simple Yes/No question. Am I missing something? AG * >
*If this simple Yes/No question can't be answered, it seems to argue that entanglement with the environment is an illusion. AG * -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
