> On 21 Jun 2018, at 19:11, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Jason Resch <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > >> If mathematics was more fundamental than physics then Intel would be a > ridiculously unnecessary company and would have gone bankrupt decades ago, > but physics can clearly do things that mathematics can't and so the company > is thriving > > > That doesn't follow. It could be that: > Number relations -> Platonic computations -> Conscious Computations -> [...] > > No that could not be because it doesn't conform with what we observe. When > the matter in our brains changes our consciousness changes and when our > consciousness changes the matter in our brain changes; that wouldn't be the > case if consciousness were created by some sort of mystical Platonic heebie > jeebie that did not involve matter or the laws of physics.
That is false, but you need to get through step 3, so I will not insist, especially you are invalid below. > > >>If neither matter nor physics existed but "1+1 =2" did then "1+1 =3" > would exist too, one of those statement is fiction and one id nonfiction but > the only difference between the 2 is the way physics treats matter, for > example 2 merged hydrogen atoms behave differently in a gravitational field > than 3 do. > > >Is "1", "2", and "3" have any meaning, then "1+1 ~= 3". > > I agree, but if not even one physical thing existed then the consequences of > 1+1 ~= 3 would be exactly the same as 1+1=3 That is simply invalid, even before step 3. But I guess Jason will tell you this. Bruno > and that would be none at all because the concepts "1","2","3", "equal", and > even "not" would have no meaning. In the final analysis you always need > physics to tell you the difference between fiction and nonfiction; if your > bridge falls down then some idea you employed in building that bridge was a > fiction. If physics did not exist then falsehood would work just as well as > truth because neither would have any consequences. > > >You understand that we could be in a matrix type of simulation. > > Yes, but some *thing* must be performing all those calculations needed for > the simulation, and that couldn't be done if there were no things. > > > If you accept the Church-Turing Thesis, then you know no program can ever > determine what machine is executing it. > I'm not exactly sure what "it" in the above refers to, but I accept that, > ignoring the speed difference, if a Turing Machine can do something then the > human brain can do it and if the Human brain can do it then a properly > programed Turing Machine can do it. > > > If you accept multiple-realizability (which I think you do) you > understand that computers can be made of anything, so long as it preserves > the necessary relations. > Yes, but preserving the necessary relations means rejecting an infinite > number of incorrect relations. There are an infinite number of relations > between the numbers 1, 2, and 3 but only one of them is consistent with the > addition operation and only physics can tell you which one that is. If "one" > hydrogen atom combines with "two" hydrogen atoms and if it is falling in a > gravitational field it will have "three" times the momentum and energy that > "one" hydrogen atom would have; if you build a wall and figure it will stop > the atoms because you think 1+2=2 and the wall is strong enough to withstand > twice the energy of one hydrogen atom then there will be consequences for > your erroneous belief that you didn’t expect. But without physique there are > no consequences. > > > John K Clark > > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
