> On 1 Aug 2018, at 23:36, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> If the cat is always in a mixed state, discussing decoherence times in the 
>> context of this wf make no sense, at least to me. But if you insist on this, 
>> mustn't the overall wf be a mixed state, making the radioactive source, and 
>> so forth, also mixed states?
> 
> An atom can be in a superposition of decayed and not decayed because it is 
> relatively isolated. 

An atom can be measured as being in a superposition state BY YOU because it is 
relatively isolated FROM YOU.

If an atom is in a superposition state, QM-without collapse explains this, and 
explain why you cannot directly see the superposition if you interact with the 
atom. But the superposition never disappeared, it has only be be contagious on 
your own state, and like in the WM-duplication, each “copies” see the atom like 
it has deciphered and lost its means to show interferences. 

Bruno




> It doesn't radiate IR photons or have other interactions with the 
> environment.  Haven't you read Schlosshauer's paper yet?
> 
> Brent
> 
>> AG
>> 
>> Unrelated to this issue AFAICT. If the superposition with the cat used as a 
>> starting point for your decoherence analysis doesn't exist as representing 
>> anything, it's baffling that any conclusions can be reached. OTOH, if the 
>> two component states are mixed, that's a fact that seems never in evidence, 
>> certainly not in what I have read about decoherence theory. AG 
>> 
>> Brent
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> , you have a two state system using the standard interpretation of 
>> superposition, meaning the system is in both states simultaneously, not a 
>> mixed state. AG 
>> 
>> Isn't this the standard interpretation of a superposition of states? AG 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> It doesn't go away because the decoherence time is exceedingly short.
>> 
>> Yes is does go away.  Even light can't travel the length of a cat in a 
>> nano-second.  
>> 
>> And for this reason I still conclude that Schroedinger correctly pointed out 
>> the fallacy in the standard interpretation of superposition; namely, that 
>> the system represented by a superposition, is in all components states 
>> simultaneously. AG 
>> 
>> It's not a fallacy.  It just doesn't apply to the cat or other macroscopic 
>> objects, with rare laboratory exceptions. 
>> 
>> Other than slit experiments where superposition can be interpreted as the 
>> system being in both component states simultaneously, why is this 
>> interpretation extendable to all isolated quantum systems? AG 
>> 
>> ?? Any system can be mathematically represented as being in a superposition 
>> of different basis states.  It's just a consequence of being a vector in a 
>> vector space.  Any vector can be written as a sum of other vectors. 
>> 
>> OK, never had a problem with this. AG
>>  
>> Your use of the words  "interpreted" and "this interpretation" is unclear.
>>  
>> I am using those words as I think Schroedinger did, where he assumes a 
>> system in a superposition of states, is in all component states 
>> simultaneously. It is from that assumption, or interpretation, that he finds 
>> the contradiction or absurdity of a cat alive and dead simultaneously. AG
>>  
>> 
>> ...
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