On 8/2/2018 2:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 1 Aug 2018, at 23:36, Brent Meeker <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
*If the cat is always in a mixed state, discussing decoherence times
in the context of this wf make no sense, at least to me. But if you
insist on this, mustn't the overall wf be a mixed state, making the
radioactive source, and so forth, also mixed states? *
An atom can be in a superposition of decayed and not decayed because
it is relatively isolated.
An atom can be measured as being in a superposition state BY YOU
because it is relatively isolated FROM YOU.
That seems to imply the many-minds interpretation. I'm saying the atom
is isolated from anything thing that would record it's decay (including
the cat). If you open the box and find the cat is dead and cold, you
know that the cat died hours ago. It was not in a superposition up
until you opened the box.
Brent
If an atom is in a superposition state, QM-without collapse explains
this, and explain why you cannot directly see the superposition if you
interact with the atom. But the superposition never disappeared, it
has only be be contagious on your own state, and like in the
WM-duplication, each “copies” see the atom like it has deciphered and
lost its means to show interferences.
Bruno
It doesn't radiate IR photons or have other interactions with the
environment. Haven't you read Schlosshauer's paper yet?
Brent
*AG*
*
Unrelated to this issue AFAICT. If the superposition with the
cat used as a starting point for your decoherence analysis
doesn't exist as representing anything, it's baffling that any
conclusions can be reached. OTOH, if the two component states
are mixed, that's a fact that seems never in evidence, certainly
not in what I have read about decoherence theory. AG *
Brent
*, you have a two state system using the standard
interpretation of superposition, meaning the system is
in both states simultaneously, not a mixed state. AG
*
*Isn't this the standard interpretation of a superposition of
states? AG*
**
*It doesn't go away because the
decoherence time is exceedingly
short. *
Yes is does go away. Even light
can't travel the length of a cat in
a nano-second.
*And for this reason I still
conclude that Schroedinger
correctly pointed out the
fallacy in the standard
interpretation of superposition;
namely, that the system
represented by a superposition,
is in all components states
simultaneously. AG
*
It's not a fallacy. It just doesn't
apply to the cat or other
macroscopic objects, with rare
laboratory exceptions.
*Other than slit experiments where
superposition can be interpreted as the
system being in both component states
simultaneously, why is this
interpretation extendable to all
isolated quantum systems? AG *
?? Any system can be mathematically
represented as being in a superposition of
different basis states. It's just a
consequence of being a vector in a vector
space. Any vector can be written as a sum
of other vectors.
*OK, never had a problem with this. AG**
*
Your use of the words "interpreted" and
"this interpretation" is unclear.
*I am using those words as I think Schroedinger
did, where he assumes a system in a
superposition of states, is in all component
states simultaneously. It is from that
assumption, or interpretation, that he finds the
contradiction or absurdity of a cat alive and
dead simultaneously. AG*
...
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