On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 12:50:44 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>
>
>
> On 10/9/2018 9:45 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 8:16:59 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: 
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 7:54 PM Pierz <pie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >*I refuse to accept that "axiom", and I also do not feel compelled to 
>>> embrace solipsism.*
>>>
>>
>> You are able to function is the world so you must have some method of 
>> deciding when something is conscious and when it is not, if its not 
>> intelligent behavior what is it? 
>>  
>>
>>> > *I think it is entirely possible - and indeed sensible - to believe 
>>> that some entities that behave "intelligently", like the chess app on my 
>>> iPhone, are insentient.*
>>>
>>
>> I don't know what the quotation marks in the above means but if something 
>> acts intelligently then it is sensible to say it has some degree of 
>> sentience.     
>>  
>>
>>> > *Whereas some entities that behave unintelligently (like Donald Trump 
>>> (sorry, I really shouldn't)) are sentient.*
>>>
>>
>> I admit it's a imperfect tool but it's all we've got and all we'll ever 
>> have so we just have to make good with what we have. A failure to act 
>> intelligently does not necessarily mean its non-sentient, perhaps both a 
>> rock and Donald Trump are really brilliant but are just pretending to be 
>> stupid. If so then both are conscious and both are very good actors.     
>>   
>>
>>> > *The absence of an objective test for third-party sentience does not 
>>> force one into solipsism. It may point to 1) a problem with your ontology 
>>> (qualia aren't "real")*
>>>
>>
>> That means nothing. I detect qualia from direct experience and that 
>> outranks everything, it even outranks the scientific method; so if qualia 
>> isn't real then nothing is real which would be equivalent to everything 
>> being real which is equivalent to "real" having no meaning because meaning 
>> needs contrast.   
>>  
>>
>>> > *or 2) a deficient state of knowledge wth respect to the (pre) 
>>> conditions of consciousness.*
>>>
>>
>> I don't know what that means either. 
>>  
>>
>>> > Seeing as you have no theory of consciousness at all,
>>>
>>
>> Yes I do. My theory is that consciousness is the way data feels when it 
>> is being processed and that is a brute fact, meaning it terminates a chain 
>> of "why is that?" questions.  
>>  
>>
>>> > *statements like "you have no alternative but to..." don't have much 
>>> force. There are plenty of alternatives,*
>>>
>>
>> Name one! I ask once more, in you everyday life when you're not being 
>> philosophical you must have some method of determining when something is 
>> conscious, if its not intelligent behavior what on earth is it? 
>>
>> > a refusal to engage it as a problem, in spite of the increasingly 
>>> widespread acceptance among scientists that it *is *a real problem, and 
>>> possibly the biggest problem of all in our current state of knowledge
>>
>>
>> I think intelligence implies consciousness but consciousness does not 
>> necessarily 
>> imply intelligence, so the problem I want answered is abut how intelligence 
>> works not consciousness.
>>
>> John K Clark  
>>
>>
>>
> One could look at it that way. In terms of biological evolution, what has 
> turned out to be intelligent beings (us!) are also conscious beings. When 
> we started making computers and programming languages and such (inventing a 
> field called Artificial Intelligence), it got a little confusing. Is IBM 
> Watson [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watson_(computer) ] "intelligent"? 
> Some might say yes, others, no. There are some AI scientists (or SI - 
> Synthetic Intelligence, to contrast with AI [ 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_intelligence ] who say to make 
> truly intelligent artifacts they must be conscious.
>
> So the question remains no matter how one parses intelligence and 
> consciousness: How do you make a conscious robot?
>
>
> I'm obviously not sure, but here's an idea of how consciousness might 
> occur based on Jeff Hawkins ideas in his book “On Intelligence”.  I refer 
> to the intuition pump of an AI Mars Rover:
>
>
>
> The sensors of the MR would define the current status, both internal and 
> external.  This goes into a predictor that estimates how the current status 
> will change if there's no change in the current plan.  The prediction from 
> the previous cycle is compared to the new current status.  If there's not 
> significant difference, it's “Ho Hum” and action proceeds as planned.  But 
> if the comparison shows a deviation from expectation That is something to 
> take note of.  It's noted in long-term memory which is a searchable 
> database which can be used to learn from.  And it initiates a need to 
> update the plan. So what rises to the level of  consciousness is something 
> that is surprising and may need a change of plan.  And if you ask the MR 
> what happened, it will refer to it's long term memory to give an account 
> based on what it saw as significant
>
> Brent
> P.S.  That rainbow pyramid thing is a hierarchy of values per Maslow that 
> are used in evaluating a plan.
>
>  This comports with the idea that conscious thought is a kind of post-hoc 
> commentary on what you're thinking, and explanation you can tell yourself 
> and other people. Remember that one of the criticisms of neural nets is 
> that they don't explain themselves.  That means if you want an explanation 
> from an  ANN it has to be a separate function which can also be implemented 
> by some more NN.  But then you have no guarantee that the explanation is 
> the real one. 
>
> Brent
>
 

I'm not sure what this adds to current agent programming architectures:

  EBDI = Emotions+Beliefs+Desires+Intentions model for agent programs

cf    
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief%E2%80%93desire%E2%80%93intention_software_model

- pt

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