> On 10 Jan 2019, at 07:39, Philip Thrift <cloudver...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 6:49:05 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 11:38 AM John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com 
> <javascript:>> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 5:01 PM Bruce Kellett <bhkel...@gmail.com 
> <javascript:>> wrote:
> 
> > Rubbish. The fine structure constant is not computable by Feynman diagrams. 
> > What might be confusing you is that QED calculations of physically 
> > measurable  things like the Lamb Shift and g-2 for the electron depend on 
> > the value of the FSC.
> 
> How is using Feynman diagrams to compute the Lamb Shift Shift (which depends 
> on the Fine Structure Constant) different from using Feynman diagrams to 
> compute the Fine Structure Constant?  After all physics didn't determine the 
> Lamb Shift from the Fine Structure Constant, they determined the Fine 
> Structure Constant by looking at the Lamb Shift, in fact the very very fine 
> lines in the spectrum of Hydrogen is how the Fine Structure Constant got its 
> name. 
> 
> The following 2012 article in Physical Review letters describes a QED 
> calculation involving 12,672 tenth order Feynman diagrams used to calculate 
> both the magnetic moment of the electron and the inverse of the Fine 
> Structure Constant and obtaining a value of 137.035999173 which is almost 
> exactly the same as the experimentally derived value:
> 
> That is an experimentally derived value!!!!!
>  
> Improved Value of the Fine Structure Constant 
> <https://arxiv.org/abs/1205.5368>   
> 
> John K Clark
> 
> Your original claim was that the fine structure constant was computable. But 
> it is not computable from first principles, it is a physical constant that 
> must be measured. The fact that computations might be involved in getting the 
> value from measurements does not mean that the FSC is itself computable.
> 
> You have to define what you mean by "computable". The FSC is a measured 
> quantity, not computable in the way pi or e are computable from mathematical 
> formulae.
> 
> Bruce 
> 
> 
> 
> Constants enter the vocabulary of physics by means of theories. A constant is 
> an entity of a theory, but a constant is not an entity of nature. Nature may 
> have constancy, but it's theories that have constants. 
> 
>            Theory != Nature. 

A theory of nature is certainly different of nature, like the brain+telescope 
is different from a far away galaxy.

Note that a theory of the arithmetical reality (like PA or even ZF) is also 
different than the arithmetical reality.

Then, a theory of arithmetic can be seen as a number, like the Gödel number of 
the provability predicate, and a large part of the metamathematics is emulated 
in arithmetic. The arithmetical reality reflects the “talks” of the numbers 
about arithmetic and about themselves, and the arithmetical reality explores 
itself. Physics is retrieved by what the machine can predict in some first 
person plural partially sharable way.

Geometry, analysis, and physics are the unavoidable tools that the “number” 
invents to understand themselves. But consciousness of the human type can 
require a relative rarity combined with a huge continuous explosion in the 
multiple representation. The bottom is highly and completely symmetrical, but 
from inside we break the symmetries (“we” the universal machines).

Bruno



> 
> - pt
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com 
> <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list 
> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Reply via email to